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Old 08-13-2020, 05:12 AM   #1
dpson
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Default Rear Wheel Bearings

There have been several recent posts about the poor quality of the reproduction Model A transmission bearings and was wondering if there are similar concerns with the reproduction rear wheel bearings?
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Old 08-13-2020, 08:25 AM   #2
chrs1961815
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

Not really the answer you are looking for but very few buy the repros as the originals are almost always okay as long as they have grease on them. If they are not, it is easy to find another pair.
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Old 08-13-2020, 11:04 AM   #3
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

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Originally Posted by chrs1961815 View Post
Not really the answer you are looking for but very few buy the repros as the originals are almost always okay as long as they have grease on them. If they are not, it is easy to find another pair.
I wish that were the case in my world. I would guess that 75% of the ones I see have a worn axle race, a worn hub, and a bearing that the case-hardening is worn thru from lack of lubrication.
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Old 08-13-2020, 01:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

I've seen some pics of a new bearing that wore through the end plate and proceeded to grenade itself inside the hub and wiped out the axle race and hub in the process. Probably best to look for NOS, NORS or even good used.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

Reproduction rear wheel bearings for years have been very hard on the race hub on the rear axle housings and the cause of their extreme wear. The roller elements appear to be very hard. The original rear wheel bearings had spirals in the element and appear to be made of a softer material.

Many of the originals have survived and are perfectly serviceable. They are often seen at swap meets. Originals are all that I have installed in any Model A I owned.

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Old 08-13-2020, 07:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
I wish that were the case in my world. I would guess that 75% of the ones I see have a worn axle race, a worn hub, and a bearing that the case-hardening is worn thru from lack of lubrication.
Brent, I know the wear you refer to but I don't think it is due to lack of lubrication. I suspect that Henry's hardening process was lacking. It seems the metal at the open end of the hub bearing hardened OK but the it didn't get right down into the hub, leaving it too soft, hence the wear. It has been the same with every original hub I have seen.
So long as the female taper is OK, I am happy with one of those hubs after I use a repair sleeve in it and new end on the housing with V8 rollers. Alternatively, I pack 3 X NU 1010 bearings in each side.
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Old 08-13-2020, 08:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

Synchro - I’m at a decision point now as I am having new bearing races pressed onto the axle hubs. I’m planning to re- install the original bearings and hubs, but, if too loose, also have the repair sleeves for the hubs and V8 bearings if necessary. My only concern is what I’ve read about the V8 bearings being too hard. Any insights to share ?

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Old 08-13-2020, 09:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

Straight roller bearings are not held centered by a preload,they are a slip fit and bear the load applied across the length of the roller.Due to the environment they operate under they are subject to side load resulting in uneven wear which is well tolerated by this type of bearing.
Inspecting these bearings correctly requires avoiding experienced gained from inspecting tapered roller bearings,which are way less tolerant on wear,'witness marks',toe or heel wear,even the telltale bottom of the axle housing wear can be used if the rollers are not chipped or heavily galled..keep them greased and keep on going..
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Old 08-13-2020, 09:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

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Originally Posted by Conaway2 View Post
Synchro - Iím at a decision point now as I am having new bearing races pressed onto the axle hubs. Iím planning to re- install the original bearings and hubs, but, if too loose, also have the repair sleeves for the hubs and V8 bearings if necessary. My only concern is what Iíve read about the V8 bearings being too hard. Any insights to share ?

Thanks - Jim
Not really. I haven't heard of the rollers being too hard until this thread. What is supposed to be the problem with them being hard? I know that for a while, the sleeves for the housings were too soft and wore quickly. Maybe someone has got things backwards and thought that because the sleeves are wearing, the rollers must be too hard when it is actually the other way around. The sleeves are too soft. That said, I believe some of the better suppliers have improved them recently.
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Old 08-14-2020, 07:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Not really. I haven't heard of the rollers being too hard until this thread. What is supposed to be the problem with them being hard? I know that for a while, the sleeves for the housings were too soft and wore quickly. Maybe someone has got things backwards and thought that because the sleeves are wearing, the rollers must be too hard when it is actually the other way around. The sleeves are too soft. That said, I believe some of the better suppliers have improved them recently.
Well said. When mistakes in hardness is made, too soft is normally the problem not too hard. About 10 years ago Texas T parts had to recall their new Model T rear axles for further hardening when people on a coast 2 coast trip reported problems. Axles were tested and were found to be too soft.
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Old 08-15-2020, 03:06 PM   #11
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Rear Wheel Bearings

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Brent, I know the wear you refer to but I don't think it is due to lack of lubrication. I suspect that Henry's hardening process was lacking. It seems the metal at the open end of the hub bearing hardened OK but the it didn't get right down into the hub, leaving it too soft, hence the wear. It has been the same with every original hub I have seen.
So long as the female taper is OK, I am happy with one of those hubs after I use a repair sleeve in it and new end on the housing with V8 rollers. Alternatively, I pack 3 X NU 1010 bearings in each side.

It really is not the hardening process per se', -and some people have the opinion the bearing rollers were designed to flex. While this was something that it could do on a minute scale, that was never the intention of the manufacturer or the Ford engineers.

The proper name for this bearing was the Hyatt helical bearing since it was designed by a guy named Hyatt. The bearing used spring steel wound in a spiral around a carbon steel or cast core to form the roller. The A-1116-C1 Hub drawing that I have (-which BTW is a Kelsey-Hayes originated drawing #: 11456) shows the hub was forged out of E-E steel and heat treated after machining. No matter which way you play it, the spring steel is going to be harder than the hardened forged steel used in the hub. If the bearing was properly lubricated at all times, wear was never to be an issue for neither the bearing nor the hub race.
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