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Old 05-04-2020, 03:53 PM   #1
Mr 42
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Default gearbox restoration sortoff

have not spent much time in the flathead world on the web, just tried to drive the wheels of my 33 Roadster. By the end of last summer, i dumped the clutch and lost first gear ;-) So now it's time to build a new gearbox.


This is what i have spent most of my time on the last years, and i have neglected my Ford. But now i see the end of the tunnel :-)



I have collected this parts over the years.


On the left there is a Home built Lincoln gear set, A friend of mine built five sets of them a long time ago. And he have had a set of them in his roadster for many years now. The i have a Truck housing that i plan to use some 41-48 gears.



Its a bit hard to read.


As i understand it the housing is a bit stronger.



Looked OK when opened, but someone had been there before me.




Can somone tell me what year its from?


The gear set from the three on the tree box.


This was in the bottom.



Closeup on the "Lincoln" set.


I am told that the gears was welded under water to keep the hardening on the gears.







The is my first problem, i bought this NOS synchronize'r rings a long time ago. But i need a wider gap. I have been told it's ok to open up the gap?



Shoul i use this setup with the spring and ball in eh synchronize'r?



Or this?



Or will both work with this cluster gear?



Last question should it be this type of washer in both ends?
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Old 05-04-2020, 10:02 PM   #2
cas3
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

well, this sat here all day with no response, so i will throw out some of my limited knowledge. first, the easy one, yes, thats the correct thick washer that holds the u joint on. one looks a little chewed up, pick the best one. the case may or may not be a pickup truck case. it looks to have the deep well at the front for clearance for the larger 29 tooth gears set, for a lower 1st gear, which a pickup most likely would have had, but really anything is possible. the old wives tale of the stronger case is the one that has a rib all the way across the bottom. yours only has a rib to the drain plug, on the others that rib continues all the way to the back. i've never heard of solid proof that they are any stronger, but thats what all the kids want i guess. the syncro rings are strange, i suppose if you can do a good job of it, why not widen them to fit. they do not fit snug in those notches, there is a little play, but each notch should make contact at the same time, do you have a mill and a rotary table? make sure the depth is correct too. your serial number is too hard to see. you should be able to read it better than us, then go to van pelts sales web site and look up your number. nice old vw you have there, my neighbor is vw king here, owner of dune buggy supply in norwood/ young america. i'm thinking the easiest solution to your problems would be to sell me the roadster, and keep playing with vw's. best wishes
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Old 05-04-2020, 10:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

Lars, It is so good to hear from you, you've been conspicuously absent for so long...I've always admired the Scandinavian attitude...those Lincoln gears being one such example. About all I can add is that there is currently an educational thread running on this forum about various gearsets.
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Old 05-04-2020, 10:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

From what I can transcribe, I'm gonna say it's a 1948. It's newer than 1939 for sure due to the updated 1,6,9 font. Looks like *899(?) - 1223051. Odd, what I put as (?) Should be an A but looks like C and there is no * at the end of the number. The first number really looks like a 6 but according to the website it has to be an 8. May help to either lightly brush on white paint and read the dark indents or put it on heavy and wipe with a rag to read white numbers....

Here is link that may aid in identification. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ialnumbers.htm

There is this site as well but it really looks like a US number.
http://www.wnyrg.org/can find.html
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Old 05-05-2020, 12:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will D View Post
From what I can transcribe, I'm gonna say it's a 1948. It's newer than 1939 for sure due to the updated 1,6,9 font. Looks like *899(?) - 1223051. Odd, what I put as (?) Should be an A but looks like C and there is no * at the end of the number. The first number really looks like a 6 but according to the website it has to be an 8. May help to either lightly brush on white paint and read the dark indents or put it on heavy and wipe with a rag to read white numbers....

Here is link that may aid in identification. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ialnumbers.htm

There is this site as well but it really looks like a US number.
http://www.wnyrg.org/can find.html

You're seeing the result of some of the things that CAN go "wrong" when humans stamp numbers, possibly straying from the "stamping guidelines". That number above IS an "899C..."! It also looks like the opening for a stick shifter is just barely visible below the number. That would make sense since "899" represents production year 1948. The "C" represents "Commercial", which is Ford's way of saying "pick-up" truck back then. That also stands to reason because the pick-ups in '48 had the top-mounted stick-shifter instead of the side-shift arms found on the car ("899A") transmissions.


I say that the "strengthening rib" on the bottom of the trans cases that everyone refers to isn't really that important as such. If these transmission CASES are going to crack at a weak spot, that spot is usually a crack between the big input shaft bearing hole and the lower cluster gear shaft hole in the front member of the case. When one really "gets on it", that input gear and it's kissin' cousin gear on the front of the cluster attempt to push away from or separate from each other when extreme torque is applied. The 29-tooth cluster geared wide ratio gear set is the most prone gear set contributing to this case cracking scenario, because that gear set offers the highest torque multiplication of all gear sets in 1st gear. DD
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Old 05-05-2020, 03:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

Hello Lars how nice to see your name pop up here.

I'm not sure what you are asking about the ball in the synchroniser, but as long as the tooth count matches, I think the cluster gear is not specific to any synchro type.

The synchro ring should have very fine thread form on the cone surface to hold oil. Can't see those on the pictures. If plain bore I wouldn't use them.

Personally I'd use the best synchro assembly and it's existing rings from one of the transmissions you have. But that's me. If you need to machine one of the new rings the advise above is good.

The thick washer has been fitted backwards. It should act as a cone spring (belleville washer) the cupped side goes towards the trans.

I must say the job on the gears was done very well. A lot of skill demonstrated there in those pictures.

Mart.
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Old 05-05-2020, 05:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

I’m not exactly sure what gears he plans to use for the top loader but there are two incompatible gear sets that I can see here. The pickup transmission (the open drive type) appears to be the 1951-52 type. Aside from the synchro assembly the 51-52 gears cannot be mixed with the 1936-50 gears. So, unless he wanted to go open driveshaft, the only useful parts would be the gearbox case and the shifter housing.
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Old 05-05-2020, 11:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

MR 42; are you going to put a Meteor in this one? ;-)
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

Thanks for the Feedback.
No Meteor in this one I have a G29T German flathead in it, with swedish made Elco Twin replica heads, and Lucas Dizzy in the front and Bosch in the rear.

What im trying to do is to convert my open drive truck gearbox, to closed drive.
Using this home made "Lincoln gears" set.


I opened up two 42-48 gearboxes, to pic parts from.
One have the spring an ball synchronizer type.
And the other have the other type, that according to the interwebb is the best type.
So i guess i will use that one with my modified NOS sync rings.

I have left the syncro rings on the left to my local machinist to open up the three gaps.
So it will be like the one on the right


I think that will work OK.
Will let you know how it goes ;-)
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

Lars, the inside conical surface of the brass synchro ring should have a grooved surface, like a very fine thread form. I can't see that on yours. I'm not sure i would use smooth ones.





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Old 05-08-2020, 01:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

Hi Mart
They have real good sharp grooves, just not show's on the picture.
And they bite really good on the conical surface. So i think they will work OK.
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

Time flies, thought i should do an update.


A year ago i tried to peel of on asphalt, and lost first gear and reverse.
Must confess a was quiet tired of all this Flathead Hot Rod thing after doing it for 45 years, so I parked it. Last week i put it on axle stands, and removed the rear axle


Since you lift out the gearbox from above its quite easy to do, to remove the gearbox



This is what I found :-) Low-Reverse had lost some teeth's



And the Cluster gear was missing some to.



Assembled my "39" box with Truck housing, and Swedish built Lincoln gears.



Some spray can work and it was lifted back into the car.
Pre greased the prop-shaft joint.


I cut out this part of the floor, to make the work easier, And it was not the first time, found traces that it had been cut out twice before with a gas ax. This time I made it removable by loosening some bolt's. I will mount a Columbia quite soon i hope.



"New" gearbox filled with oil, and everything bolted up.


Then i fitted the tin and floor board.


It was a good feeling to be able to take it out for a spin, And what a difference the "Lincoln" gears made, and the new syncro rings is wonderful. its almost like driving a new car (only better :-))

Last edited by Mr 42; 07-24-2020 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 07-23-2020, 03:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

Excellent progress, Lars. It's great that it is back in one piece again.
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

A gas axe!! I never heard that one before.
We usually call it the blue wrench.
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

I loved 'Gas Axe' too. Gonna use it.
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Old 07-24-2020, 03:57 AM   #16
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

That’s about the prettiest car I’ve ever seen!!.......Mark
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: gearbox restoration sortoff

I've never seen a set of gears like that, but what the heck - they look like they should work! Have fun with your "new" car . . . looks like a blast to drive.
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