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Old 08-08-2020, 08:34 PM   #1
Daniel f
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Default v8-60 transmission help

I just reinstalled a V8-60 in my model A. The transmission is a commercial v8-60 transmission. I installed a new clutch with the large portion of the center clutch disc pointed towards the transmission. Anyway's everything seemed fine until yesterday when a helper mistakenly "pumped the clutch" when I was bleeding breaks. The clutch will now not disengage (as if the clutch pedal is depressed), I disconnected the linkage and gently tapped the arm that engages the clutch fork towards the rear end of the car and was able to engage the clutch / transmission and drive the wheels. However, after hooking the linkage up and depressing the clutch pedal, the clutch once again remains engaged (e.g. as if in neutral).

I really want to exhaust remedies before pulling the transmission as the engine install took the better part of a weekend and everything is hooked up and clean. . .

Any help appreciated.

Daniel

Last edited by Daniel f; 08-08-2020 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 08-08-2020, 08:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

Daniel.....I'm a little 'slow' sometimes, but your description and phraseology is confusing the heck out of me. To me, the clutch being "engaged" does not mean "as if in NEUTRAL". The clutch "engaged" means that the disc is clamped tightly to the flywheel, and driven by flywheel rotation. Clutch pedal DOWN should "disengage"! Clutch pedal UP should "engage". So, can you please try again for ME? And one more question....is there a proper clutch PEDAL return spring actually attached to the pedal? DD
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:15 PM   #3
Daniel f
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

Sorry about the confusion with my terminology. Using your terminology. The clutch will not engage when the pedal is released (not clamped tightly to the flywheel). There is no clutch return spring. I ran this setup for years before the engine rebuild without issues.
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

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Sorry about the confusion with my terminology. Using your terminology. The clutch will not engage when the pedal is released (not clamped tightly to the flywheel). There is no clutch return spring. I ran this setup for years before the engine rebuild without issues.


OK, that's a better explanation. Now, ya really NEED a return spring to pull a clutch pedal ALL THE WAY up on any clutch-equipped automobile. Without such, the throw-out bearing is probably still resting on the spinning clutch fingers at ALL times, likely spinning constantly, and that ain't good.....period! It's also POSSIBLE that the lack of a return spring COULD hinder the complete engagement of the pressure plate.

A couple of questions.....When you push down on the clutch pedal, does it feel 'normal'? Does the pedal traveling downward feel like it always did?

With the transmission shifter placed in 1st gear, and with the clutch pedal pressed to the floor, are you able to crank/start the engine WITHOUT the car moving forward? In other words, is the clutch completely releasing as it should?

With the clutch pedal released upward, grab the pedal and physically pull the pedal all the way UP as far as it will NORMALLY go. It should be able to move UPWARD roughly an additional 1" to 1-1/4" or so more than when the pedal was at rest with the throw-out bearing resting on the pressure plate fingers. This is called "free play". Roughly how much "free play" do you have with your clutch pedal?

Are you using one of Cling's V8 adapter kits like pictured below? DD









……..
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:19 AM   #5
Daniel f
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

When I get the clutch to disengage by disconnecting the linkage and gently tapping the linkage arm on the transmission and hook things back up. After depressing the clutch the pedal goes almost to the floor with only a few inches of movement. The first 1/2/to 3/4 of movement is like nothing is connected. I can then feel the clutch pedal engaging then pressure plate and it feels normal / springy. The clutch will engage then I must disconnect the linkage and "gently tap" the arm back to engage the clutch. No adapter, home made linkage.
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Old 08-09-2020, 07:33 AM   #6
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

Ck the arm to see if it's cracked. When the engine was out did you do anything different to the linkage or just replace the clutch disc?? New disc: May have to adj linkage to get correct free play??
Paul in CT
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Old 08-09-2020, 08:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

What is the freeplay at the pedal before you feel any resistance? If it is 3/4 the way to the floor your adjustment is WAY off. This could be from the new disk being thicker and pulling the pressure plate arms down toward the flywheel. Adjust the freeplay to about 1 inch, put a return spring on the linkage and see if all is well. If there is not enough length in the linkage to get the right amount of free play you might need one with longer threads.

Also, what do you mean by "large portion" of the disk towards the flywheel? Any time I install a new clutch disk, I hold it up against the flywheel and see if it spins easily. I besides putting one in backwards back when I was a teen, I once got a wrong mislabeled disk that the springs would contact the flywheel bolts either way it was installed.

Last edited by deuce_roadster; 08-09-2020 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 08-09-2020, 09:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

I would take the inspection cover off the trans and see if any thing
looks amiss in there.
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Old 08-09-2020, 01:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

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When I get the clutch to disengage by disconnecting the linkage and gently tapping the linkage arm on the transmission and hook things back up. After depressing the clutch the pedal goes almost to the floor with only a few inches of movement. The first 1/2/to 3/4 of movement is like nothing is connected. I can then feel the clutch pedal engaging then pressure plate and it feels normal / springy. The clutch will engage then I must disconnect the linkage and "gently tap" the arm back to engage the clutch. No adapter, home made linkage.


Daniel......My friend, I would love to be able to help you here with your problem, but your replies are about as confusing as listening to Abbot and Costello's infamous "Whose on First" skit (Click the link below).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RatKhtboq2E


You should be more-precise in describing what each of your actions accomplishes. Most-importantly, you seem to continue to confuse the terms ENGAGE and DISENGAGE, and you continue to misapply one term when you seemingly mean the other. I'm REALLY not trying to pick on you. Slow-down, and put your thoughts on paper. Your descriptions should CLEARLY tell a COMPLETE story. There are several others here besides myself wanting to help you, but we will need a CLEAR picture, and CLEAR symptoms.


Can you describe what type of pedal set-up you've configured, since the Model 'A' pedals went away with the original transmission/bellhousing? And from the new pedal, what sort of linkage have you used and how is it routed?


If I understand what I THINK you are trying to describe is that now, when you slowly depress the pedal, it feels like NOTHING is being accomplished until the pedal is 1/2 to 3/4 of the way toward the floor. At that point, it feels like the throw-out bearing has made contact with the disengagement fingers on the pressure plate, and the remaining clutch pedal travel to the floor feels springy/NORMAL?


IF that is a true statement, and with the pedal on the floor, is the clutch in fact FULLY DISENGAGED such that the engine can be started with the transmission placed in 1st gear? OR, is the clutch still PARTIALLY engaged, trying to move the car forward while attempting to crank the engine? WE MUST clear-up this point BEFORE we go any farther in troubleshooting this problem long-distance. DD
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

Need some pictures of your setup.

Last edited by jimvette59; 08-09-2020 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

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Looking at your setup, there is a awful lot of weight hanging on those Model A engine mounts. I think the adapters on your setup are creating a misalignment or binding problem. I think there should be a rear transmission mount of some sort. Just a thought, did the Model A bellhousing need to be indicated for alignment for the clutch to work properly. JMHO

Jim that is not his setup, he has a V8-60hp.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

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Originally Posted by jimvette59 View Post
Looking at your setup, there is a awful lot of weight hanging on those Model A engine mounts. I think the adapters on your setup are creating a misalignment or binding problem. I think there should be a rear transmission mount of some sort. Just a thought, did the Model A bellhousing need to be indicated for alignment for the clutch to work properly. JMHO

Jimvette…..I BELIEVE you made the same assumption that I did at first. After re-reading more than once, I THINK he has replaced everything with a V8-60 engine AND V8-60 transmission. I THINK! DD
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

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Jim that is not his setup, he has a V8-60hp.

Hi I just realized that. DUHHH
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:43 PM   #14
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

v8Cooperman. I am sorry for the confusion. My setup is a v8-60 in a Model A pickup. I ran the 60 for several years and recently rebuilt the engine (I did not remove the transmission which is a v8-60 commercial transmission). I will try to avoid using the term "engage" to describe what is going on. Currently the engine will not drive the transmission without regard to the clutch pedal position. If I take a piece of wood and tap the arm on the transmission back (away from the engine and towards the rear end), the engine will drive the transmission, however, after depressing the clutch pedal it will no longer drive the transmission regardless of clutch position. I have tried shorting and lengthen the linkage without success. The only thing that works is to physically tap the shifting arm backwards with a piece of wood. Is it possible to partially shear the drift pin on the shifting arm? I can take photos / video of the linkage if that helps. No offense taken for criticizing my understanding of the transmission. I understand engines, transmissions (not so much). . Thanks for your help and guidance. Daniel
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

Have you tried lubricating the throughout bearing where it slides on the snout of the transmission??
By commercial do you mean it has the larger V8 transmission and clutch?
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:56 PM   #16
Daniel f
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

The transmission is stamped 73-7006-2. I think this is the commercial v8-60 transmission (accepts larger gears?)
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

What about the return spring for the throw out hub inside the bell. Is it there and intact? Does the clutch release fork move with the clutch control movement? They have been know to shear a pin on occasion.
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Old 08-09-2020, 06:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

i've seen the fingers on the pressure plate seize, and the throw out bearing hub seize. both can be lubed thru the top cover. if you say it still moves when you tap the arm back, its not stuck...yet. a few drops of oil in the right places, not sprayed allover, you dont want to get any on the clutch
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

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The transmission is stamped 73-7006-2. I think this is the commercial v8-60 transmission (accepts larger gears?)
===============================================



The regular V/8 60 trans has 4 bolts holding the shifter in place.
The commercial trans has the larger gears, and 6 bolts holding shifter.




.
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Old 08-10-2020, 06:29 AM   #20
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Default Re: v8-60 transmission help

Daniel, I never had trouble understanding your first post or your follow-ups. By the time I saw them, the thread was off and running.
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Last edited by Hoop; 08-10-2020 at 10:43 AM.
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