Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-03-2020, 08:08 PM   #1
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
Default Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

I have some sbc Mallory's in the shop to convert to 8 BA. These are the
2 piece vintage cap styles. Here's the problem all have 4 lobe cams, all
are dual point using the Ford style Mallory points. These points are adjusted

with a screw driver in triangular depressions in the breaker plate. My issue
is some distributors have the points 180 degrees apart and others about

135 degrees apart. I slipped a 135 distributor into my test motor and got
very erratic spark or no spark at all. If the motor fired it was just burp.
I removed the 135 breaker plate and installed a 180 breaker plate using
the same points that were on the 135 plate. The motor fired right up no

sweat. I was extremely careful that in both scenarios .everything was
properly insulated.
Help me out here....what's the deal with the 135 plate.
Thank you,
Charlie
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2020, 08:27 PM   #2
35fordtn
Senior Member
 
35fordtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 1,848
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Charlie,
I am clueless as I've messed with nothing but original dizzy's. Do you have a sun or allen machine? If so what's the arrow seperation from even to odd cylinders when using the 135 degree breaker plate?
35fordtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-03-2020, 08:41 PM   #3
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,595
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Charlie,

I have a flattop Mallory for an Olds Rocket that has a four lobe cam. The points are not wired together, each set having it's own terminal on the side of the distributor housing. This distributor uses a special Mallory coil that has two primary windings and one secondary winding. Each set of points energizes it's primary winding alternately. It's sort of a "poor man's" dual coil setup that doesn't require a special cap or rotor. I also have a couple of SBC flattop Mallorys with 4 lobe cams where the points are wired together and feed one primary on the coil like regular dual point. I believe these are called "Double Life" distributors because they alternatively fire each set of points to energize the primary, resulting in half the wear on the points. I believe this type of distributor needs the 180 degree plate. while the first requires the 135 degree plate. These "poor man's" dual coil setups obviously require two condensers.


Denny
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OldsRocket.jpg (61.2 KB, 273 views)

Last edited by tubman; 08-03-2020 at 08:50 PM.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 06:52 PM   #4
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 7,545
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Is this the wasted spark system?? How do you run a V( with a 4 lobe cam?? Must use 2 coils and a 180 plate. Not sure about the cap.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 07:23 PM   #5
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 7,055
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
Charlie,

I have an Olds Rocket engine.
Denny

Denny …...I guess that common sense would dictate that these early Olds, Caddy and Hemi engines with the extended, cast bells probably shouldn't be 'hung' off of an engine stand by their butt-ends just like the early flattys? And if that is true, and with the exhaust ports being NOT located in the BLOCKS, just how does one cautiously hang one of these on an engine stand? DD


PS....CUTE little gold thingies!


__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


In that final nano-second while the metal bar speeds toward his furry little head, the oblivious mouse FINALLY realizes WHY the cheese was free!






Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 08-04-2020 at 09:11 PM.
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 07:41 PM   #6
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,595
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
Is this the wasted spark system?? How do you run a V8 with a 4 lobe cam?? Must use 2 coils and a 180 plate. Not sure about the cap.
Ron - Did you read my post where I stated that these distributors require a special coil with two primary windings? The coils were made by Mallory and have three primary terminals instead of the normal two. I can post a picture of one tomorrow if need be. They look like a regular Mallory "FlashFire" coil with an extra primary terminal. In effect, these ARE dual coil systems. Because there is only ONE secondary winding, there is only one secondary lead from the coil so they can use a regular cap and rotor. It's quite clever when you think about it.

And, you can run a V8 with a 4 lobe cam and one coil if you have dual points phased properly. That's the Mallory "Double Life" distributor. Each set of points cycles only four times in two revolutions (all 4 cycles) instead of eight times, hence the name. I think this is also quite clever.

As a point of reference, with "regular" dual point system, both sets of points work in concert to increase the dwell and therefore coil saturation.

Last edited by tubman; 08-04-2020 at 08:09 PM.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 07:49 PM   #7
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,595
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Denny …...I guess that common sense would dictate that these early Olds, Caddy and Hemi engines with the extended, cast bells probably shouldn't be 'hung' off of an engine stand by their butt-ends just like the early flattys? And if that is true, and with the exhaust ports being NOT located in the BLOCKS, just how does one cautiously hang one of these on an engine stand? DD


PS....CUTE little gold thingies!


I was referring to the distributor having a four lobe cam in case anyone is confused. To answer your question, I would never attempt to mount one of these by the bellhousing; I think that would be an invitation for disaster! Lucky for me, this engine was completely rebuilt when I got it. One of my next projects is to mount this on my test stand (that has standard front and rear mounts) to get it running, and hopefully, any maintenance that it may need can be done on the test stand.

About the "gold thingies"; I get 'em wholesale; that's almost a necessity with these distributors.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 09:21 PM   #8
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 7,055
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
I was referring to the distributor having a four lobe cam in case anyone is confused. To answer your question, I would never attempt to mount one of these by the bellhousing; I think that would be an invitation for disaster! Lucky for me, this engine was completely rebuilt when I got it. One of my next projects is to mount this on my test stand (that has standard front and rear mounts) to get it running, and hopefully, any maintenance that it may need can be done on the test stand.

About the "gold thingies"; I get 'em wholesale; that's almost a necessity with these distributors.

Sorry if I caused any confusion about 'cams'. I understand the theory, but was merely trying to shorten the "quoted" reference.


Getting back to the cast bells....just HOW do guys safely mount these on a true engine stand? As many of these that I had seen in the past, I had never really thought about mounting one before your picture above just 'smacked' me up the side of the head. DD
__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


In that final nano-second while the metal bar speeds toward his furry little head, the oblivious mouse FINALLY realizes WHY the cheese was free!





V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 09:22 PM   #9
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

I went thru my inventory of Mallory parts and found that I had initially used the only

non DOUBLE LIFE plate to build the distributor that started this post. I had eight
DOUBLE LIFE breaker plates. That tells me the DOUBLE LIFE was pretty popular and
the Mallory on your delicious Olds maybe not so popular...just a guess. I have a bunch
of Chevy Mallory's and most have the 4 lobe cam. It is quite obvious when eye balling
an 8 lobe Mallory the distinct difference in the location of the points in relation to
each other.
Denny, I sure thank you for clearing up my flumox.
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 09:36 PM   #10
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,595
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Charlie,

Yeah, the Olds type was "not so popular". The proper coil that I have for it is a 6 volt unit and I have been looking a couple of years for a 12 volt unit with no luck. I really don't want to run that Olds on 6 volts.

Denny
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2020, 10:36 PM   #11
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 7,545
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Just when you've thought you've seen everything. You have to start all over again.
Gramps
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 06:20 AM   #12
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Denny,
Some years back Skip Haney rebuilt a Mallory 'square' coil for a buddy,

perhaps he still does.

Ron,
Alice and I will always cherish the hours we spent with you almost ten

years ago.
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 07:08 AM   #13
Frank Miller
Senior Member
 
Frank Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 1,796
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Denny …...I guess that common sense would dictate that these early Olds, Caddy and Hemi engines with the extended, cast bells probably shouldn't be 'hung' off of an engine stand by their butt-ends just like the early flattys? And if that is true, and with the exhaust ports being NOT located in the BLOCKS, just how does one cautiously hang one of these on an engine stand? DD


PS....CUTE little gold thingies!


You build an adapter or a whole different engine stand to support the front. That's one way.
__________________
“The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound
Frank Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 08:04 AM   #14
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

My recall is not what it used to be but I do remember my '53 Olds coupe with a LaSalle trans and '57 J2..........Coming off the line at about 6000 the clutch and pp blew up and

grenaded the rear casting. A bit un-nerving, opened up the trans tunnel and killed my
radio, back on the road in a week.
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 11:16 AM   #15
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,595
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

That distributor may also be from a "MagSpark" setup. "MagSpark"'s are hard to find and obtuse, so I don't know much about them. I have a "MagSpark" transformer, and it also has three primary terminals, one marked "Ignition" and the other two are obviously for the two leads to the distributor. I'm starting too believe that a "MagSpark" is nothing but and oddly packaged coil with two primary's and one secondary, just like the "FlashFire". Mallory called it a "Transformer", but I see no sign of AC current anywhere.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 12:43 PM   #16
solidaxle
Senior Member
 
solidaxle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 196
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Here you go Tubman.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Magspark.jpg (36.0 KB, 53 views)
solidaxle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 02:02 PM   #17
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 6,595
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

That's like the "MagSpark" I have. I find it interesting in that it has two ballast resistors that are on the distributor side of the coil. My "FlashFire" (for want of a better name) has only one ballast resistor, on the "Ignition" side of the coil. The red coil is a regular "FlashFire". BTW, 6 volt "FlashFire"'s are black, while 12 volt units are red.

BTW, is that part of a system you have, or just an odd piece, I try to accumulate all of the Mallory stuff I can.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1718.jpg (50.6 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1711.jpg (55.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1713.jpg (48.4 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1712.jpg (48.8 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1714.jpg (54.0 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by tubman; 08-06-2020 at 12:03 PM.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 03:53 PM   #18
solidaxle
Senior Member
 
solidaxle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 196
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

This one says 49-53 Ford / Merc 6volt negative grd on the box. But you can wire them positive ground.

I suspect, all the Magsparks like this are the same unit. The part numbers change because of the mounting for each make of auto. It utilizes two condensers one on the dizzy and one on the coil. Different from the Olds Rocket picture above.


I'm using a YC, 4 lope with the contacts is series and one Mallory Best coil.


Going back to Charlies original question. Looking through the literature I have, the only two contact plates I see are one for 8cyl and one for 6cyl.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Magspark .pdf (104.7 KB, 26 views)
File Type: pdf Magspark.pdf (108.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: pdf Mallory plate.pdf (291.0 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by solidaxle; 08-05-2020 at 04:10 PM. Reason: adding attachment
solidaxle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 06:01 PM   #19
scicala
Senior Member
 
scicala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Detroit suburb, MI
Posts: 2,911
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie ny View Post
My recall is not what it used to be but I do remember my '53 Olds coupe with a LaSalle trans and '57 J2..........Coming off the line at about 6000 the clutch and pp blew up and

grenaded the rear casting. A bit un-nerving, opened up the trans tunnel and killed my
radio, back on the road in a week.
Charlie ny
Charlie, that reminds me of a story. In high school, my Auto Mechanics teacher was an NHRA drag racer. He raced his '66 big block L78 Chevelle at first with the factory cast aluminum bell housing (4 speed car). He exploded the flywheel and clutch/pressure plate and tore up the floor pan, and had outward dents in the front fenders and dashboard. Also broke off all four mounting ears off of the trans. He was lucky he didn't get hurt himself.

Sal
scicala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2020, 08:13 PM   #20
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,492
Default Re: Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

Solidaxle...........in my inventory of Mallory breaker plate I have a bunch of the 26017
plates as shown in your post.....the plate that got me in trouble is 24878. I'd sure like
to know what application it services.
Thanks,
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:07 PM.