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Old 04-21-2018, 02:04 PM   #1
Bustingear
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Default 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D
Just finally assembled my transmission and got it dropped into the frame. made some linkage and low and behold first press of the pedal and no movement.
It slides back and forth on the spline no problem but when it hits the fingers its a dead stop. Not sure what i did wrong but cleaned all with a new disc. Gears shift fine and goes into neutral but just cant get further movement of the clutch
Just trying to find what to look for before i pull it and open it up. Suggestions?
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File Type: jpg IMG_6218.JPG (137.0 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6220.JPG (130.0 KB, 70 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6240.JPG (123.9 KB, 70 views)
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Old 04-21-2018, 02:52 PM   #2
philipswanson
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

Maybe clutch linkage and/or clutch fork in bellhousing? Are you getting 1" of free play on the pedal?
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Old 04-21-2018, 03:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

The T87 is the heavy duty 3-speed transmission used in the F1 & later pickups and it is a stout one. You may have a pressure plate problem if there is nothing amiss with the actuator shaft or throw out fork. The disk could be backwards too but that is usually noticeable. Is this an 11-inch Long type clutch or a 10-inch Long? New reproduction or rebuilt original?
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:39 PM   #4
Ross F-1
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

You have to use an 11" clutch with the T87, the discs are thicker thru the hub than the 10"
(corrected)
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Last edited by Ross F-1; 04-21-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:51 PM   #5
Bustingear
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

looks like i will be opening it up. I will let you know what i find
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

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here are the pictures from disassembly
11" clutch from Van Pelt #*81T-7550
Pilot bearing from Van pelt # 2065-16
side of clutch with the extensions faced transmission
Is the pilot bearing in far enough?
Is the clutch fork facing the right way?
Correct Bolts for flywheel?
clutch thickness is 5/16
clutch spline thickness is 1 1/8
correct pressure plate? it measures 2 7/8 from floor to face or surface

Correct clutch and or thickness? , pilot bearing? , throw out bearing?
Suggestions please......
Attached Images
File Type: jpg clutch1.JPG (109.3 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg clutch2.JPG (138.7 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg clutch3.JPG (86.2 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg clutch4.JPG (129.9 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg clutch6.JPG (114.0 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg clutch8.JPG (104.6 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg clutch10.JPG (86.9 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg clutch11.JPG (135.6 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg clutch12.JPG (126.8 KB, 45 views)
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipswanson View Post
Maybe clutch linkage and/or clutch fork in bellhousing? Are you getting 1" of free play on the pedal?
the throw out bearing moves back and forth on the spline about an inch before it sops at the fingers and does not move anymore

Clutch set up just like stock with modification for frame
Attached Images
File Type: jpg clutch13.JPG (118.0 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg clutch14.JPG (118.8 KB, 40 views)

Last edited by Bustingear; 04-22-2018 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:58 PM   #8
Art Newland
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

How far do the release fingers on the pressure-plate move in when the disk and PP are bolted up to the flywheel? I would imagine an 11 inch clutch is going to take considerable pedal pressure.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

you ran out of "throw" on the clutch linkage, that is why it bottomed out. the release bearing should touch the fingers on the pressure plate with only 1 to 1 1/2" movement of the pedal. sometimes you have to use a pair of pliers to hold it in this position while you adjust the linkage to fit
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Old 04-22-2018, 05:39 PM   #10
Bustingear
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoodieman View Post
you ran out of "throw" on the clutch linkage, that is why it bottomed out. the release bearing should touch the fingers on the pressure plate with only 1 to 1 1/2" movement of the pedal. sometimes you have to use a pair of pliers to hold it in this position while you adjust the linkage to fit
Please more thoughts on this...

Last edited by Bustingear; 04-22-2018 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 04-22-2018, 06:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

What's your pedal ratio ?
Your not bottoming out on your adjustment yoke are you ?
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Old 04-22-2018, 06:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

I think Ggmac is on the right track, it sounds like the leverage advantage is not there.
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

Ggmac please explain Adjustment yoke a bit and how to read and make changes around that
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

Correct flywheel?
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

You posted this issue over on the HAMB which is where I posted most of my comments. I could be wrong but it almost looks like you’ve installed the flywheel backwards, which could’ve offset it to the front. If the bolt holes for the pressure plate are drilled completely through the flywheel, it would be the correct type. Can you take a better picture, showing your flywheel from the side rather than from the rear?
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Old 04-23-2018, 05:56 AM   #16
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bustingear View Post
Ggmac please explain Adjustment yoke a bit and how to read and make changes around that
You would need to move your pivot point on the pedal . The yoke may be hitting due to its angle when fully depressed. I can't tell from the pics . If you have an original pedal assembly, from almost any v-8 year, and compare its leverage.
You could use heim ends if your yoke is hitting .
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

here is side view of flywheel to check if installed properly. There is a spacer just behind the bolt heads...Is it in the correct location?
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File Type: jpg clutch17.JPG (89.3 KB, 17 views)
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

That is certainly a flywheel for an 11-inch clutch and appears to be installed correctly. The photo of the clutch pressure plate model number is hard to tell whether it is 11CF or 10CF but if it bolts to that flywheel then it has to be an 11-inch. I would want to test that clutch pressure plate to see if it will release properly. The 11-inch Long type is big so it would likely be too big to test it in a hand operated arbor press. With hydraulic, it would be hard to tell how much pressure is applied but if a person is careful it could be done. It should compress easily. Another option would be to send it to your favorite clutch rebuilder and have it gone through. That flywheel looks like it could use a skim off of it too. Might as well start out with good surfaces.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:36 PM   #19
Bustingear
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

put it all back together and put a pair of vice grips on the cross shaft and a two foot pry bar and it moves just fine I can feel the leverage required. This will be a challenge for the linkage as i cant mount it to the pedal base due to and offset pedal shaft and a very pinched AV8 frame. I will see what i can HACK up. Thanks for all the help Gents!!!
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1950 Ford Flathead Transmission T87D

The 11-inch Long type is known for its higher pedal pressure but it's likely not a lot more than the 10-inch at idle. Where it is noticeable is at higher rpm. Those flyweights load it up pretty well at the higher rpms. There's more centrifugal forces going on the larger the clutch weight & diameter gets. With that big T-87, a larger clutch won't hurt but it will slow the throttle response. It'll have good low end torque though.

You may need a bit more mechanical advantage on your actuator lever lengths.
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