Tiss A Shame.. another one

[Canuck]

Just read this ad on kijiji
its a very nice Condition Model A that will be rodded soon
http://london.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehic...AdIdZ216682231

[Tom Wesenberg]

Looks like the "DUMBING DOWN of AMERICA" has spread across the border!

Aren't there laws against this kind of stuff?

[Scott NY]

couldn't they find one in less pritins condition seeing how they are going to rod it

[Brendan]

i don't think that is right, i know that is his car, but he should pass it along to someone who can appreciate it for what it is a orignal model A

[Steve Plucker]

Ladies and gentelmen, we might as well face the music on these. This type of thing is going to happen time after time now and yes, it makes me sick.

We, the purists and semi-purists will bust our asses to do ourselves a fairly decent original Model A Ford only to see one day, after we get tired of it, go down the road only to become a chopped up hotrod never to see the light of originality again but we hope that will not be the case.

Once the money for our beloved restored, original Model A is in our hands and we see it go down the road for the last time, we must remember...It is their car now and they can do anything they want with their car...makes one sick dosen't it?

Pluck

[Scott NY]

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Over 20 years ago I looked at a real nice original 30 Briggs Town sedan. I told the owner that I was going to pass on it for I was looking for a roadster. Talk to the owner a couple of days later and he told me that a guy was going to buy it and chop it, so I ask the owner if I matched his offer could I still buy it. The car is still in my posession today, come to find out I bought it from the original family.

[Bruce]

Starting with one that purty sure won't make a rat rod! It'll be more of a wrong rod. I agree with you guys that it really doesn't make sense and it sure does tug on the purist's heart chords ... but guys have been making Model A's "better" for 80 years! At the Iola, WI Car Show the Model A modified by legendary Dusenberg designer, Gordon Buehrig, was in a place of honor with crowds of lookers around. It was a very stylish and formal convertible "custom" that not one of you would "kick out of your garage." In fact, you'd slobber all over it. It was beautiful.
So, this kid (assumption) looks at a Tudor and he sees something low and fast that cheats the wind. In his way he's just as in love with the Model A as you are or Gordon Buehrig was.
And, on the bright side, for $2,100 somebody will get a very nice start to putting their sweetheart back on the road.
Sure a lotta work ... but we are all having fun!

[Uncle Bob]

Not meaning to whiz in anybody's Wheaties here, but the opening sentence pretty much tells the tale: "This car is no longer for sale as a Complete Unit."

Sounds like he tried to let some purist step up and "save" the car, but nobody put their own money on the line.

I had a similar situation a few years ago when the market was stronger than today. Came into possession of a very complete '40 deluxe tudor sedan project. It came with box loads of NOS and restored parts and a good title. Had one of the cleanest original frames I've ever seen. I carefully cataloged and made a spread sheet of each part and had loads of pictures. I advertised it for months nationwide. The result? I got to email out gazillions of pictures and spreadsheet copies. Not one serious buyer after a lot of work. Finally I had to part it out to make it go away. The good news for me was I made about 4k more selling it in pieces. Yeah, a potential good car was removed from the world inventory. On the other hand, many, many other projects got excellent parts to bring them back to life.

[Bruce]

Note that one Canadian dollar = 0.961354 U.S. dollar. US bidders shave almost $100 off before any dickering! That's enough for a tank of gas and a couple stops at Tim Horton's for donuts!

[Chris in WNC]

at least the guy is close to fair market on the take-off parts, assuming they are as good as he describes.

[Patrick L.]

I sure like street rods, but, that said, I sure don't like seeing a good car[ or one with possibilities] turned into a rod.. There are so many different plastic bodies on the market today, frames are easy to build or can be readily bought today that I think its a real shame to butcher an old steel body car..

[Dusty]

I am not a hard core purst and I think the hot rod does have its place in car history however this does disturb me as well.

[Keith True]

I bought two nice solid cars to save them from being rodded.I had to top the rod boys bids to get them,and I wound up paying a lot.The A guys would not step up to the plate,on a solid 29 coupe barn car the best offer was less than half of what I paid for it.If I had sold those cars to A guys,for the best offers I got over a years time,I would have taken about a $7000.hit.Both cars went to rodders,and I made money.I didn't care for it,but I'm not about to take $7000.out of my pocket to save an A.It has changed a lot now,but years ago we had A's for old cars because they are cheap to buy,own,and fix.Most of us here are cheapskates.A guys are nothing when compared to british bike guys.When they look at a bike they start deducting the retail cost of every incorrect washer,nut,bolt,cotter pin,then deduct the cost of having it professionally replaced at a british restoration shop.By the time they get done you have to give them $25. to haul your bike off.Now I treat old cars like I do british bikes.I take people to whatever barn,shed,or garage it is in,tell them to take all the time they want,if they have any questions come to the house or garage and see me.If they want it,for my price,pay me.If not,just pass on it.No more offers.I give bottom dollar price up front now.I had a fellow with several A's look at a coupe I wanted about $7500.for.I told him before he came there was no wiggle room,it was what I had paid for the car to save it.He actually offered me $1000. Then he got mad because he had driven 125 miles to have me turn him down.He admitted the car was as described,and remembered me telling him very clearly FIRM on the price.I sold it to a rodder for just over or under $9000.

[Steve Ciccalone]

Keith, are you ever right on the money about the British bike guys. Biggest bunch of chiselers I've ever seen.

[Keith True]

When I said,Most of us here are cheapskates,I meant here as in where I live,not here on the Fordbarn.I just read and realized what I wrote.The old boys around here are mostly gone now,but what you had for sale was a dime a dozen and what they had was made of gold.A lot of them used to holler and scream about rodders,and said their car would never go to one,but when the money came out that car was history.

[SGT in Ont.]

The ad is no longer available on Kijiji. Guess it sold or maybe the ad was just removed for another reason.

[V4F]

ya cant save em all ....................... sorry .. steve

[29RPU]

It is too bad, but I got to thinking why does it really matter to us? There are plenty of original model As out there. The world has more nicely restored model As in it than ever before, and will continue to gain restored cars as time goes along. Barn finds and those 'future projects' will eventually start popping up in car shows and tours.

I think I start to feel sorry for the car. The problem here is obvious...the car doesn't have the capacity to care. If it does (like I would like to believe) maybe it would like being a hot rod...and will surely get the looks either way. If it is starting out that nice, it is unlikely to become a rat rod. It will likely become a traditional hot rod or something along those lines and be pretty nice.

I think the real issue here is the guy could probably sell this car for a little less and still have a less expensive hot rod. Most of the money in hot rodding is chassis components and drive train, depending on what he builds. So say he gets 2100 (I think) for what is left. Couldn't he redo another body for say 10k? The frame has to be modified for a rod anyway. I think he just lost a lot of money. I guess people who do this don't like the joy of refinishing a body, choosing a color and doing the upolstry part of the job?? Just my thoughts.

[Blessyouboys]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Once the money for our beloved restored, original Model A is in our hands and we see it go down the road for the last time, we must remember...It is their car now and they can do anything they want with their car...makes one sick dosen't it?

Pluck

No. Absolutely not.

[FL&WVMIKE]

I have a friend, who was looking for the best Model "A" tudor, that he could find, to chop. He followed one on E-bay. It did not sell. He went to look at it and made a low offer. He got it, and is now ready to chop 6" out of the top. He says it has never rusted or dented. He is very happy with it. Just a matter of time now .............
MIKE

[Dan Baron]

The more Model A's that go to hot rodders the more our Model A's are worth. That's how I have to look at it. Before a hot rodder wouldn't want to spend more than $3000 for a Model A. Now I'm seeing up around $6000. The only reason I got my 30 Coupe so cheep, was because the seller knew I wasn't going to hot rod the car.

[kp]

HMMMMMMMMMMM ,I have both ,48 Ford coupe street rodded ,I rescued from a wrecking yard ,it now sports a 350 chevy motor and transmission ,hyde mustang 2 front end ,posey rear springs,exterior is mostly stock looking,did most work myself ,and a 31 Ford coupe that is restored to original cond. I enjoy both vehicles ,I figure a guy has the right to do what he wants ,and I can actually say I have considered sooping up my 31 but probable wont.It does seem to be a shame to mess up a good body. What ever trips your trigger .

[Mountain Dew]

Rodding out good Model A's is going to happen. I hate to see it but I try to be optomistic about it. Look at the parts that the rodder is not going to use that we could pick up at a swap meet. The front end, rear end, engine.... all they want is the body. It still hurts to see a good body chopped.

[Mike V. Florida]

I think mentioned this before but at a car show we saw what was to us a real beat up sport coupe. You could see light throught the back, the fenders were repaired (poorly) and the price tag on it was $7500.00. Way Way Way too much we all said for something in that condition.

We bumped into a guy that just bought a coupe that he was going to rod and asked us if we wanted to take a look and make an offer on the parts he was not going to use. So off we went, in the garage was what we were told was a '30 coupe that we saw sat on a 28-29 frame with welded in front cross member rot around most of the out side and little or no interior. Far worse that what we saw earlier. We got to talking and made offers for the drive train and front end, steering etc.

During our talking we found out that he planned a restomod. That is from the outside it would look stock with stock interior, not chopped or channeled. He told us he paid $8000.00 for the car and had it shipped from Tx. This car was in our opinion far worse condition then the sport coupe. He also showed us catalogs that if he bought the body and frame aftermarket it would cost him about 22000.00.

So shipping costs were offset by selling us the parts he did not want leaving 22000 minus 8000 for a 14,000 savings. That will buy alot of patch panels!

[Bassman/NZ]

A hot rod (not a street rod) can be made from a Model A without doing anything irreversible. There are a few examples on the Hamb. A dropped axle (yes, mechanical brakes can work with a dropped axle), reversed spring eyes and the removal of a leaf or two at the rear, 16" wires or solids with bigs and littles, remove the bumpers, an aftermarket head, twin 97s and nice exhaust and presto! Instant hotrod. No problem, could all be put back to stock in a weekend.

For the record, my AV8 project has earned me the wrath of some purists in my neck of the woods. I am very quick to point out to them that the body was offered to two vintage car clubs, and both of them deemed it too far gone to be worth bothering with. Now that I spent nine months on the bodywork getting it all in shape they turn all righteous on me. Gimme a break.

[custom53]

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original cars are very common and do not turn too many heads. a real period correct hot rod is not that common and gets alot of attention anywhere it goes. the one in my avitar is my dads and it gets driven almost every day. he also has a restored original that he will not drive but a few times a year. i would rather have a hot rod too.

[denis4x4]

After reading some of the comments here, I really feel bad about selling Model A running gear for 10 cents on the dollar to restorers! On the other hand, I've picked up some choice early thirties speed equipment (Stromberg-Bendix intake and an original CRAGAR head) because Model A guys wouldn't pay the going price. This subject has popped up every couple of years and nothing ever gets solved, so get over it!

[Bruce in southern OH]

No, what we need is a new government agency, take tax dollars under a grant and purchase these cars as they become available and store them until we can distribute them to a preservation group, FordBarn A members, that would be a change, Bruce

[George Miller]

Do you guys really want laws that tell us what we can do with our property, I do not. We have enough laws now. Yes I have made many hot rods built my first one in the 50 ts.
Would I use a car that nice no. Most of mine were made from cars no one wanted, they said they were to far gone.
But we have to remember to most people they are just old cars.

[Terry, NJ]

When I bought my 30 Town Sedan, the owner had turned down an offer from a rodder. He put it in his Farm auction and sold it to me for exactly what the rodder was willing to give, which is not much. The owner didn't want the car "rodded' and neither do I.
Terry

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH

No, what we need is a new government agency, take tax dollars under a grant and purchase these cars as they become available and store them until we can distribute them to a preservation group, FordBarn A members, that would be a change, Bruce

FINALLY! A guy that wants to put common sense into government.

It will never work though, because government can't comprehend common sense!

[Tony Martino]

Her's my story. My 31 sat as a complete car in a barn for 50 years, When it came up for sale at a reasonable price nobody wanted it. After some deliberation it was decided to rod the car. All of the unused parts went to Model A guys. That included a complete frame, engine trans fenders bumpers hood etc. What was left was turned into a traditional rod. There are no modifications to the body, so theoretically it could be restored by the next guy if he wanted. Considering that my vin is 4 MILLION, 600 THOUSAND AND SOME.There will probably be plenty of parts around for at least another 50 years. One other thing, I drive my car as almost daily transportation. You don't see many stockers doing that. Just my 2 cents..... DRIVE THE WHEELS OFF!

[George Miller]

I think you got the answer. A good share of us model A guys are cheap. We do not want to pay as much as the rodders A lot of A guys when it come time will sell there car to a rodder, if they can get more money.

[Chris in WNC]

I keep hearing about the rodders who pay big bucks for Model As, but when we had our unrestored 31 Tudor on eBay last spring, they were conspicuously absent.

[panhead_pete]

Wasnt there 5 million model A's made? Surely enough for everyone to enjoy them however they want. Having said that I've seen cars that are MUCH too nice to mess with. They are beautiful as they are.

My last two cars have been a 32 and 29 Coupes, both rodded. My next coupe will be based on the best car I can find, preferably an older restoration then rodded as per Bassman/NZ suggested, just mild 40s style changes including going highboy. Who knows, the one after that might be completly stock when done as I am getting older. My rodding mates reckon Im joining the dark side, my mates with restored cars say Im seeing the light.

My point here is whilst I obviously recognise this site as predominatly for restorers just as the HAMB is for traditional hotrods, just seeing theses cars in pretty much any use is still a buzz to me.

BTW if I do buy my next coupe off here I will make it clearly evident what my intent is.

[Tony Martino]

Here is another thought. Even in the 30"s and 40's people modified their cars, Model A's didn't come stock with grill guards, trunk boxes, radiator ornaments, running board guards, etc. This was all to set their car apart from everybody else. Now the restorer puts a value on having all these extras like they were ORIGINAL, but they really weren't. So if a guy in the thirties put a 4 port Riley head on his car and you have the opportunity to restore the car are you going to take it off because it wasn't STOCK? I doubt it. My opinion is that at this point in history, the best restored Model A has been done. Why not start restoring some of these cars to the way they are found? Then you would be adding new stories to the long great history of the Model A, Probably one of the top 10 cars in history, and never loosing popularity in 80 plus years. How many cars can make that statement? Drive on.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Here in Florida, there have been some really NICE restored cars bought to be rodded.
The rodders state that it is cheaper to find restored cars, than to have to hunt for good bodies, fenders, bumpers, lights, grills, etc., when all of that has been done. They don't have the body repair, travel, chrome expenses, etc. It makes sense. They can get right to work.
MIKE

[Keith True]

I found ebay was NOT the place to sell to my A's.As one guy that bought one of my cars put it,We are not paying $9000.for a Model A,we are paying for a car body we can look at,climb all over,and actually lay our hands on.We don't have to have it hauled 1500 miles across country to find 50 year old brazed or pop riveted patches.We are paying $9000.for a solid,straight body instead of $10,000 worth of bodywork,plus buying the cheap($3-$4000)body on top of that.Funny thing about that coupe,I asked a friend of the buyer how he was doing with it(hoping for chassis parts) and the friend laughed and said he found he didn't have the heart to cut such a solid straight car.He may have gotten over that by now,but last I knew it was taking up precious work space in his garage.

[Greybeard]

I'm one of those "hotrod" guys who has been visiting the "barn" every day for the last 3-4 years. I had a plastic '32 roadster that didn't fit me too well so I sold it. Along came a 180A on _bay in New York & it looked just like a roadster, only longer. I could move the seat back and make it comfortable to drive. I bought the car for $7000.00 because "all the sheetmetal was in good condition". I didn't know anything about the body style and it unique-ness. As it turns out, this car would probably been turned down by a "purist" due to the conditions. The only thing remaining of the original car is the tub, 1 door & 1 fender. I had to replace both rear fenders, running boards (and braces that had been bondoed because they we so badly rusted) splash aprons & windshield frame. The original tub had been patched with window screen wire, carpenter nails & bondo. Thanks to Pete, I was able to get a new lower rear patch panel fabricated as well as rear door pillar quarters. I had to replace the lower cowl panels.
This weekend we got the car back together, sitting on a TCI chassis, Chevy 406 small block, 200 4R transmission & Ford 9" rearend. It looks beautiful in black primer, 285/75-15 tires, spun aluminum discs, Speedway Motors bucket seats, '40 Ford dash, steering wheel & shifter. It will be in Bonneville in 3 weeks, fulfilling #1 on my bucket list.
I want to thank all the "purists" for their contributions ( &, for the most part, understanding) as my project moved forward. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of knowledge and quality of contributions that exist on this website!! Bonneville or Bust 2010
P.S. The car's name is: Faye and her personalized plate is Pheaton, only because the correct spelling & FAY TON were taken.