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07-22-2018, 10:13 AM | #1 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Canton IL
Posts: 59
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Generator issue?
Just fired up our 30 cab for the first time after 5 year restore project. We think the generator is not charging the battery.
The setup 1. 12 volt neg ground 2. 3 brush generator 3. new pop out 4. Polarized generator buy touching the front post of the pop out to the back post for about 2 seconds. It did spark when we did this and I could hear a bit of a hummm 5. Idle speed set normal or slightly high Things we have done and what we observe - with the engine NOT running and the key ON we see ammeter at zero - with the engine NOT running and the key ON we turn on head lights and the ammeter drops to -15 - with the engine NOT running and the key ON the turn signals we installed work great - with the engine RUNNING the ammeter reads -4 or -5 - with the engine RUNNING I move the 3rd brush from one stop to the other stop and it has no impact on the ammeter reading. Turn on the head lights and the ammeter goes to -15. - with the engine RUNNING and the 3rd brush set all the way either direction we rev the RPM up the ammeter come up to about -3. - with the engine RUNNING the turn signals do not flash they will make a very slight flicker but will not flash. (note turn signal are fine when engine is NOT running) We think the generator is bad but need some feedback from those with more experience. Any help would be appreciated.
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07-22-2018, 10:34 AM | #2 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Have you cleaned the commutator with crocus cloth? Have you checked the brushes and the tension on the brushes? Have you checked the generator to see if it will motor( need the fan belt off and jumper around the cutoff). Have you jumped around the cutoff with the engine running?
These test may give you some more clues as to what is the problem. If the generator will motor( will run but at a low speed) then the generator is good. This is the setup I am running. |
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07-22-2018, 04:26 PM | #3 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Thanks for the response JR. It has helped.
There were some very sallow groves in the commutator when we took it apart so we used what I know as Emery cloth (fine abrasive cloth like crocus cloth I think) to clean it up. The brushes are all new and there is pretty good tension on all three of them. -we took the generator off the car and took the pop out off. Connected the generator mounting bracket to ground on a spare battery and then attached the stud at the front of the generator to the hot side of the battery. It turned at what I would guess was about 100 or 200 rpm (just a guess) not fast but not like it was hesitating. -We have not jumped around the cut out while it is running I was afraid the voltage would get into a feed loop and run away with its self. We will give that try. -Should this jumper only be done for a short period of time? as in a few seconds to see what the ammeter reads or is longer ok while we think about what we are seeing? /Tony
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07-22-2018, 05:36 PM | #4 |
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Re: Generator issue?
where on earth did you get a 12V neg ground 3-brush genny?
There are some here that say you can push a standard issue Model A genny to 12V and change the polarity but in fact it will not work properly and leave you by the side of the road. The field coils will not hold up |
07-22-2018, 05:57 PM | #5 | |
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Re: Generator issue?
Quote:
Try polarizing again, but your flaky results point to something going on with the generator. You can jumper the cutout for as long as the engine is running. In fact it may have high resistance, which could be the problem. |
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07-22-2018, 07:41 PM | #6 |
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Re: Generator issue?
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your mileage may vary. and yes they produce voltage. power is volts times amps |
07-22-2018, 08:09 PM | #7 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Btt
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07-22-2018, 08:41 PM | #8 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Thanks for the suggestions. We will try to polarize again with the car off. Then with it running try to short around the pop out to see what reaction we get from the ammeter. The generator was original to the car (original from the 50s when Grandpa got it) Maybe some insulation in the field or armature has degraded and it just not up to snuff. BTW thought badpuppy thought you would be interested to know the car was originally from your neck of the woods in Ada OK. Will return with results.
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07-22-2018, 10:22 PM | #9 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Take a meter and from a head stud to the output of the generator with the engine off should be 0 volts. With the engine running the output of the generator should be greater then zero, and if the cutout is working should be a little greater then the battery voltage. If the cutout is not working then it should be way above the battery voltage.
If you don't have a meter, start the car, jumper the cutout and the ammeter should go from minus to plus if the generator is working and the cutout is bad.
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07-23-2018, 08:36 AM | #10 | |
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Re: Generator issue?
Quote:
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07-23-2018, 09:32 AM | #11 |
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Re: Generator issue?
if the OP thinks he can believe everything he reads then he can add his name to the list of people who have smoked their gennies. The tired ancient cracked enamel insulation on the field windings don't take the extra voltage and heat well
Last edited by gustafson; 07-28-2018 at 10:43 PM. |
07-27-2018, 03:59 PM | #12 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Update: We polarized the generator again, no change. Made sure the brushes were making god solid contact then then put a jumper around the cut out with it running and that had no effect. We decided to go to an alternator and that fixed the charging issue. Thanks to all for the suggestions and ideas.
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07-27-2018, 05:37 PM | #13 |
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Re: Generator issue?
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Last edited by gustafson; 07-28-2018 at 10:44 PM. |
07-28-2018, 10:24 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Generator issue?
Quote:
I'll give you 10 bucks plus shipping for the generator.
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What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II |
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07-29-2018, 06:41 PM | #15 | |
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Re: Generator issue?
Quote:
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07-30-2018, 12:08 AM | #16 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Yikes! Thank you for your compliment
Last edited by gustafson; 07-30-2018 at 11:12 PM. |
07-31-2018, 12:38 PM | #17 |
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Re: Generator issue?
The way that I see it , you were asking for it !!! I could care less about what you think or do with your generator . Bad info doesn't help anyone . There are lots of model A & T owners that run the original generator on 12 volts with good results . Voltage regulators have been on the market for this type of upgrade for years . Just because it is over your head doesn't mean that it is a bad thing . I take your posts on this thread as a personal insult . |
07-31-2018, 01:01 PM | #18 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Purdy. I have been reading your comments for a number of years now and they have been well thought out and enlightening. However lately I have seen several of your comments that have in my opinion been rather short tempered and rude. I know you are a Model A expert but I think if you disagree with someone you could in a nice logical manner point out what you disagree with and keep the name calling to a minimum. Just remember we are all in this hobby to have fun.
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07-31-2018, 07:45 PM | #19 |
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Re: Generator issue?
Update. While the alternator we put in addressed the charging issue we still had a problem in which the turn signals we installed would not flash if the car was running. They would just barly flicker. Worked fine wile the car was not running. We were using leds with the electronic flasher. We tried adding a pair of 21 watt bulbs in parallel and no change. Put a bimetal flasher in and bingo works perfect with a buss 550 flasher. It seem the ignition was feeding into the timer circuit in the electronic flasher. Hope this helps someone else
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07-31-2018, 09:13 PM | #20 |
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Re: Generator issue?
The A electrical system is Very noisy, nearly as much AC as DC it seems like. You can add a simple DC filter before the electronic flasher and then it will work fine.
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