need advice 1929 Model a no spark, no headlights

[BuckeyemodelA]

my husband inherited his father's 1929 when he passed away. It has not been started in 3yrs. The following has been done to get the car to run... cleaned the carb,cleaned the spark plugs, cleaned connections in distributor cap and rotor,cleaned gas filter and put in fresh gas- vehicle did turn over but no spark.(now it doesn't even turn over) Wasn't sure if key ignition switch was working properly so jumped the 2 connectors in the back tried to start again after 3 revolutions of the motor the starter quit working and now I have no power including the headlights. Could this be a coil problem? Battery isn't an issue as it is brand new. Desperately seeking advice as my wife is sick of it taking up space in my driveway! Is there a Model A club in Columbus(Central Ohio area) or someone who is knowledgeable to help me get this car running again?

[Jacksonlll]

Just sit tight, there are a lot of wonderful Model A’ers in your area who will help you. To start with, disconnect the battery and put a charger on it. Good luck.

[ericr]

I'm in your area, give me a call sometime, 614 314 0741, if I don't answer right away leave a number and I'll call you back ASAP.


Eric

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Let us know how it is going, update us when you have more news. if you want advice if things do not work out with Eric, ask us.


Depending on your experience level there are preferred ways to revive a Model A that can help prevent causing issues both now and down the road.
Asking for help is a positive.

[Badpuppy]

By all means recharge the battery ASAP. Even a new battery won't last long if left discharged after many failed starting attempts.

[Bob C]

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Did you clean the points??


Bob

[johnbuckley]

OK since we're all shooting at this ... No spark at plugs, and starter motor not working ..BUT as the battery is new..... with a multimeter or test light or simply a bulb with a couple of wires .... a) check the battery terminals are making good electrical contact ( maybe even tap them lightly with a hammer ?) . b) check good electrical contact where cable from battery attaches to starter motor c) find a wiring diagram on this site and on the car check the wiring to the points with a test light especially at the two terminals on the terminal box on the firewall and at the 2 terminals on the coil and at the contact breaker ( pop a bit of cardboard between the point faces )in the distributor.
aalkso follow the clues in the concurrent thread ...."No spark after nEw head replacement".
Don't get disheartened - you WILL win in the end .

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

OK since we're all shooting at this ... No spark at plugs, and starter motor not working ..BUT as the battery is new..... with a test light or simply a bulb with a couple of wires .... a) check the battery terminals are making good electrical contact ( maybe even tap them lightly with a hammer ?) . b) check good electrical contact where cable from battery attaches to starter motor c) find a wiring diagram on this site and on the car check the wiring to the points with a test light especially at the two terminals on the terminal box on the firewall and at the 2 terminals on the coil and at the contact breaker ( pop a bit of cardboard between the point faces )in the distributor.

X2. I agree, 1st things 1st. Worry about no spark after getting it to crank over reliably. No lights/starter seems to indicate a battery or battery cable connection issue.


Unless depending on the A, on if it is fused or has a master cutoff off switch that removes all battery voltage - then could be a fuse or bad cutoff switch, or connections to them.


We can guess all day, hopefully Eric can be a main contact, or pay them a visit to help out. Nothing like another set of experience eyes on site to quickly figure this out. Not as much fun for us, but may be more helpful for them

[ericr]

Fellas I talked to the gentleman at length. Turns out that the starter was jammed somehow, maybe a dead spot on the armature, though I am guessing more than that on that issue. he put her in 3rd gear and rocked it loose. Anyway there is no battery problem at this time.


I guess no full fire to the plugs, maybe a tiny spark, I am guessing a bad condenser or lower plate wire or coil issues; maybe whatever ignition switch it has though I kinda doubt that. He installed a modern 6-volt replacement-type coil and I have never dealt with wiring those. I'll get an authentic-style repro coil on it for test purposes.


I can't know if the car had the '29 terminal box wiring changeover till I see it.


Eric

[mgtf1500]

Club Info: Model A Drivers (MAD) of East central Ohio is new and seeking new members. The cost is right -- Free -- first year. We cover eastern Columbus and the contiguious counties. Muskingum, Knox, Perry, Licking, Fairfield, and Delaware. It is a MARC (Model A Restorers Club) Chapter. Email :
JWKENNARD @ ROADRUNNER.Com

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Perhaps timing was off, or he didn’t know how to retard the spark correctly.?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Bendix was jammed in flywheel, known to happen. If they were having issues starting, recommended is to wait a second or 2 for the motor to stop spinning and the bendix release before engaging the starter again . Not waiting can cause bendix to jam.


As posted above, have the points been cleaned?

[BuckeyemodelA]

Thank-you Eric this is the gentleman's wife. Got the starter to turn replaced coil and still no spark car just turns over.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Bendix was jammed in flywheel, known to happen. If they were having issues starting, recommended is to wait a second or 2 for the motor to stop spinning and the bendix release before engaging the starter again . Not waiting can cause bendix to jam.


As posted above, have the points been cleaned?

-will do, it seems that all fingers are pointing to a distributor problem.


I was most influenced by the fact that the car has sat without running for several years....won't a condenser weaken under long storage?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

The starter is live. Do the lights come on, or does the horn work, or does the dash light work. If nothing else works except for the starter, an after market fuse may have been added to the car. Typically it is mounted to the top of the starter. It may be blown or the connections and clips may be loose/bad. This allow you to be able to use the starter, but the blown fuse is blown removes voltage from the ignition.


Typically a condenser starts to short from heat/vibration, which shorts the points, and you get weak or no spark when this happens.. That is why "short proof" condensers are available.


I do not know what symptoms occur due to an open condenser I believe you still get a spark, but the spark look different.


To check to see if you are getting voltage to the points remove the distributor cap, body, and rotor. Turn on the ignition and close and open the points with something wooden. Upon opening you should see a blue flash/spark. If you do not see a blue spark, or see a yellow (weak) spark you are not getting proper voltage to the points, or a bad condenser, or have poor/bad connections in the primary ignition circuit.. If you remove the condenser and close open the points and get a blue spark, condenser is shorting or partially shorting.


After that a voltmeter meter can be used to check voltages. Some prefer a test lamp, I prefer a meter.

[eagle]

Put a voltmeter or at least a test light ACROSS the coil terminals. Slowly crank the engine with the hand crank, ignition switch ON. Light should turn on and off as you turn the engine over. If not, then pull distibutor cover off and use test light right across the point contacts, turn engine over slowly with the hand crank and ignition switch ON. If light doesn't turn OFF and ON then clean points until they do. There are other things that could cause this, but this test will give you some valuable info to troubleshoot further.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by eagle

Put a voltmeter or at least a test light ACROSS the coil terminals. Slowly crank the engine with the hand crank, ignition switch ON. Light should turn on and off as you turn the engine over. If not, then pull distibutor cover off and use test light right across the point contacts, turn engine over slowly with the hand crank and ignition switch ON. If light doesn't turn OFF and ON then clean points until they do. There are other things that could cause this, but this test will give you some valuable info to troubleshoot further.

-pretty easy-to-understand advice and I advised the owner to check this thread, until I flounder over there. He sent me photos of things and I think his wiring is in good shape. He is using a modern replacement coil and I have no knowledge about that hook-up, I'll give him a repro original-design coil I have, if need be.

[ericr]

Dear Fellow Shade-Tree Mechanics,


I advised the owners to test the gas flow through the gas line, as we sometimes do.


Ten lashes on me with a Model "A" high-tension wire if this was a gas-flow issue all along.

[Badpuppy]

After sitting a long time, point contacts will corrode. Couple strokes with a points file (nail file) will fix.

[BuckeyemodelA]

Still no spark did everything with points, new condenser, wiring, fuses, fuel and fuel lines, battery etc... turns but doesn't engage.