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Old 07-01-2019, 08:09 PM   #1
Russ/40
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Default Odd Failure

Been driving my OCPU a lot and am really enjoying it. Took my 90 year old father in law for his first ride, that he was eagerly waiting for all the time I was building the truck. We had a nice drive, and he commented on how tight the truck was. After returning to the house I decided to go back out for gas. Hit the starter, and absolutely nothing, not even a sound. The starter was fine when we left the first time. I have eliminated the battery and the starter switch. Lights are bright horn is loud. Never had a starter just tottaly fail.


It as if something opened internally in the starter. I haven't pulled the starter yet, but will be. Any guesses as to what I will find?
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Odd Failure

Happens all the time. Just put car in third gear and push it backwards. You will hear a pop and you are all set.
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:28 PM   #3
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Check your private messages.
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:42 PM   #4
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Happens all the time. Just put car in third gear and push it backwards. You will hear a pop and you are all set.
I checked that immediately after the problem presented. Th

That's not it.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Odd Failure

in- line fuse? wait starter will still turn? good connections!
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
Been driving my OCPU a lot and am really enjoying it. Took my 90 year old father in law for his first ride, that he was eagerly waiting for all the time I was building the truck. We had a nice drive, and he commented on how tight the truck was. After returning to the house I decided to go back out for gas. Hit the starter, and absolutely nothing, not even a sound. The starter was fine when we left the first time. I have eliminated the battery and the starter switch. Lights are bright horn is loud. Never had a starter just tottaly fail.


It as if something opened internally in the starter. I haven't pulled the starter yet, but will be. Any guesses as to what I will find?
The easiest thing to check is the first thing to check. You will need an analog voltmeter with a 3 or 5 volt scale.
Check all of the heavy cable connections FIRST. Every where there is a connector or connection.
Put one lead on one side of the connector or connection and the other lead on the opposite side. This is to read any voltage drop ACROSS the connection, if any.
When the meter leads are connected, try the starter. You should see NOTHING on the meter. NO VOLTAGE. If you see voltage (either polarity), you have a high resistance connection. Can be caused by corrosion, rust, broken wire lug, loose bolt/nut, bad solder joint.
A bad connection of this type will sometimes pass enough current to work the horn or low current accessories but not the starter.
Another simple check is, turn the dash light on and try the starter. If the light goes out or gets very dim, proceed with the previous check. If the dash light stays on but the starter does nothing, you may have a broken wire or a hung brush inside the starter. Starter switches have been known to fail internally also.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Odd Failure

do you have a ground strap to the engine/trans?
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Odd Failure

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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
The easiest thing to check is the first thing to check. You will need an analog voltmeter with a 3 or 5 volt scale.
Check all of the heavy cable connections FIRST. Every where there is a connector or connection.
Put one lead on one side of the connector or connection and the other lead on the opposite side. This is to read any voltage drop ACROSS the connection, if any.
When the meter leads are connected, try the starter. You should see NOTHING on the meter. NO VOLTAGE. If you see voltage (either polarity), you have a high resistance connection. Can be caused by corrosion, rust, broken wire lug, loose bolt/nut, bad solder joint.
A bad connection of this type will sometimes pass enough current to work the horn or low current accessories but not the starter.
Another simple check is, turn the dash light on and try the starter. If the light goes out or gets very dim, proceed with the previous check. If the dash light stays on but the starter does nothing, you may have a broken wire or a hung brush inside the starter. Starter switches have been known to fail internally also.
Thanks for the input Pete. Everything is new, but I went over all my connections yesterday, but not with a meter. I shall do that. Excellent troubleshooting theory.

Railcarmover, I added another ground to the engine yesterday, no change.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: Odd Failure

Remove the switch from the top of the starter motor. Try a heavy jumper cable directly from the battery to the copper button on top of the motor. If the motor works disassemble the switch. Use a fine file to clean up both the button on top of the motor and the spring contact in the switch. All contact points should be clean and bright, including the internal cable bolt and spring mating points when you reassemble the switch.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Odd Failure

Can you hand crank and start it ?
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:24 AM   #11
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Exactly how did you eliminate the switch as being a problem? I do just like MikeK does.Take the switch off,and jam the hot cable end down onto the contact on top of the starter.Just be careful,and don't miss.A new switch does not mean a good switch.I've seen them that will have juice at the stud,but none going through the strap.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: Odd Failure

A tough one I ran into was a bad, or corroded crimp between the cable and the end-cable fitting. It measured 6 volts, but would not pass heavy current. Check those crimps.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: Odd Failure

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Thanks for the input Pete. Everything is new, but I went over all my connections yesterday, but not with a meter. I shall do that. Excellent troubleshooting theory.

Railcarmover, I added another ground to the engine yesterday, no change.
As Pete said , if its a Vintique starter switch take it off , mine from Vintique lasted a few weeks , put back on 90 year old original and never had a issue after.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:05 AM   #14
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Yea check the starter switch, we went through that last summer with my Dads car. The new Vintique ones are junk. You'll be better off if you can get the original one working
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: Odd Failure

The original starter switches have a spring material contact that is not found in any of the reproductions. The original may be Beryllium Copper. I replace the contact in the reproduction switches with original contacts.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:31 AM   #16
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Ok guys, I'll take another look at the switch.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:26 AM   #17
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in- line fuse?
An inline fuse to the starter?? That baby would have to be pretty burly...
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Old 07-04-2019, 02:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Odd Failure

Here is an update to my situation with "no start." I'm embarrassed to say I'm still not sure. Now I'm not sure because I missed a few things.
The battery passed a load test initially. Subsequent load tests showed "Weak". I found a significant amount of acid corrosion on the negative battery terminal. I cleaned that issue well. My system has an Optima that is 5 years old. To corrode as it was, i'm thinking I may have been overcharging it for some time. Andrews book states set charge to 10 amps. That is where it was. Is it possible the corrosion was for some time, passing current enough to start the car, but too bad to receive a charge from the generator. Thus the battery got to the no start.

A bench test with another 6 volt battery showed a functioning starter. The switch is unquestionably good. so where I sit, with a charger on the suspect battery, I await charging the battery.

eegads Russell
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:09 PM   #19
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Depends on your driving I rarely drive at night, and think that 10 amps will boil a battery My truck always starts on the 1st or 2cnd revolution so am not taxing the battery which would require a higher recharge rate. So set my 6 v generator down to 4-6 amps.


I believe the 10 amps was for winter driving (increased battery draw when starting very cold motor)/short hops, and for a lot of time with head lamps on. For summer 6- 8 amps. I believe this info is in the Service Bulletins, and in some versions of teh A Instruction Manual.


Recently converted to LED headlamps and brake lamps - have reduced charging to 3-5 amps. Now even with head lamps on and the stop lamp on, draw is only 4 amps. Measured by turning the lamps on with the ignition off and looking at the A ammeter.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:32 AM   #20
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The final word on my starting issue. It was the battery. The battery was marginal on a load test, and being an Optima I could not do a specific gravity check. I put a charger on it overnight, then let it sit a day to dissipate the surface charge and redid a load test. I think the battery was one of the first Made in Mexico units. I'm going to a legacy type group one this time. I like the ability to do a hydrometer test.
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