FORD vs FERRARI

[AKCJ]

Saw the movie last night in imax. I was prepared for it to not be historically or technically accurate so for me it was great. Worth watching just to see all the cool cars.

[deuce_roadster]

I haven't seen the movie yet but I do plan to see the IMAX version. To all the nit pickers that claim to have found some "error" to prove how much they know...GET OVER IT--ITS A MOVIE.

[mhsprecher]

No one is perfect, but it's too bad Beebe and HFII were not represented accurately.



I only know of Beebe from what is written here and he has a good story. HFII was also far from perfect, but he saved his grandfather's company. He had a lot of help, but so did HFI. No one is a magician and master of all trades. Many people have great ideas and the drive to make them happen, but there is almost always a large supporting cast.

[frnkeore]

My wife took me to see it, last night, for my 75th Bday.

Overall, I liked the movie but, the driving scenes, are down right "Hokey"!!

Examples:
1. Ken passing on the outside, in the dirt, on Willow springs straightaway. I've raced there, many times and that maneuver, would have at least spun him but, more likely, sent him rolling, into the pits. He would have been driving on sand, with LOTS of rocks.

2. Looking at the other drivers, while doing 200+ MPH. You Do Not look at other drivers, when your racing!!!! You only use peripheral vision, even at 80 mph or less.

3. You don't put your brakes on, when cornering, especially at high speed, you trail brake, going into a corner, nothing after that nor, shift at 200+ and take off, like a rocket.

4. Even then, they wore seat belts and were strapped in at pit stops!


I don't really think they did much testing of the GT40 at Willow, the front straight is fairly short and the back straight, too. I believe most, if not all the testing was at Riverside Raceway, on the "long" track (there were 3 configurations), configuration. It's the only road track, that has a long enough straight, to let the GT40, unwind. They couldn't have used OMS (Ontario Motor Speedway), as it wasn't built, until 1968.

I was impressed with Matt Damons role (didn't think I would be), His stature leaves a lot to be desired but, a lot of shots were from lower levels, looking up, to make him seem taller. I didn't know Carol or Ken but, saw many interviews of Carol and a couple, with Ken. In those days, I lived and breathed road racing, especially, anything involving Ford.

They didn't try to show Kens death, in the "J" car, nor it happening on the Riverside, straightaway. They could have mocked up a car to look like it. Although the J car was good in the wind tunnel, the J car had aero problems, right from the start on the track and they changed the body work, to what would become the MK IV, to cure it.

Between '73 and '79, I raced at Willow Springs, Riverside and OMS so, I know the tracks well. My first SCCA drivers school was at Willow, in '73.

I know nothing about the exec's, they portrayed Iocca well but, if Bebee wasn't like that, it was a injustice to him and his family.

This is the "J" car.

[Ford46]

All in all, a very enjoyable movie. My wife even enjoyed it, at 2 1/2 hours in length she thought it would be a tough view, but was pleasantly surprised. Being a movie I knew there would be some "artistic license taken" over all I thought it told the basic story in a very entertaining way.

[felix 40]

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Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I haven't seen the movie yet but I do plan to see the IMAX version. To all the nit pickers that claim to have found some "error" to prove how much they know...GET OVER IT--ITS A MOVIE.

I saw it last Friday and loved it.. I’m with deuce roadster.. enjoy it! It’s just a movie.

[srg]

Henry Ford II- "What did he say about me"? (asking about Enzio's conversation); Iaccoca- "He said your fat sir".

[mhsprecher]

I just saw the movie and loved it. I thought that Damon and Bale were terrific. Of course it had to be the suits vs. the racers and maybe it was that way. Anyone who has worked in a corporation knows how the politics are and Ford was as political as any corporation.

I thought they portrayed HFII as a bit of a buffoon. Iacocca's presentation seemed a bit mild and Beebe the bad guy. As was stated earlier, if his character was misrepresented, that is too bad.

[Tinker]

HF2 has always been an scapegoat as well as Edsel. HF1 made his bones racing, not sure he would have created the program. He thought the T was all you ever needed.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by koates

I just saw the movie today and thought it was great. Nitpicking on the finer points of this racing history are a waste of time and only serve to display some egos of so called experts. Go see the movie and enjoy it. The main point was that FORD WON. Regards, Kevin.

Well, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and I suppose racing men do have large egos, but damn, man, I'm impressed with the ego of someone with the balls to call out this group as being "so called experts".

[Tinker]

Well HF2 was a union breaker...

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Well HF2 was a union breaker...

Why wouldn't he be? Unions would not be in his interest.

[petehoovie]

Good Read Here > "The Real Story Behind Ford v Ferrari" by Henry Payne - The Detroit News > https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...ri/2567859001/

[ford38v8]

Took the Mrs to the show today. Wanted to see Ford/Ferrari, but also wanted to see Irishman. Wife opted for Irishman, and we were sorry. Constant cliche mob-speak gets old pretty fast. I'll go see Ford/Ferrari with my son.

[Dodge]

We went and saw it tonight with my Wife, Brother and Sister in-law.
Kept an open mind about Matt Damon and was not disappointed.
It was after all not a story about Shelby, but one about Ford v.s. Ferrari.
There is always something you can pick apart about a movie that's trying to tell a story.
You have the story, the writers, the director and the prop department that aren't always
car people. Yes there were a several things you could pick apart but 90% of the people
seeing it won't notice.
It was a good time....

[TomT/Williamsburg]

If the movie taught me one thing it’s that Ken Miles was one hellova driver/fabricator ....

[Topher5150]

Netflix is running its own documentary about Shelby America
https://www.netflix.com/title/81218074

[rotorwrench]

Yep! I think its on Amazon prime too. The 24 Hour War was a documentary release in 2016 and it is THE companion piece to watch after you see the movie. It has the whole scoop from Enzo Ferrari to Ford Motors. It even has a shot of the old Ford 999 car from 1902. It has all the drivers that are still around plus Ferrari people, Ford family members & people, and Shelby American people. It explains a lot that the movie doesn't . Philip Remington and Ken Miles had a lot to do with the success of the GT series. I don't think they could have found better tuners of race cars than those two. Ken got killed when the experimental honeycomb panel car actually broke up at around 180 mph at Riverside. He was still experimenting right up to the end.

This documentary explains a good bit about the relationship between owners and drivers. It also gives more of a sense of the teamwork it took on both sides to win these grueling races. Ken Miles was definitely a team player but he liked to win too. I'm sure if his spirit is still around somewheres that he knows most folks agree that he won that triple crown in 1966. I'm sure that Mclaren and Amon knew he did too. That's racing though and Ken wanted to keep that job with Ford more than win the race or he wouldn't have slowed down that much. I imagine his car was pretty well spent though since he was the rabbit in the team. Bruce Mclaren's Karma caught up with him in 1970 much as it did with Ken Miles. It is a dangerous sport.

In my business the old adage fits too. There are old pilots and bold pilots but there aren't too many old bold pilots.

[hook00pad]

So true Rotorwrench!

Old Bold Pilots makes me think of Chuck Yeager, test pilot, and the "Right Stuff" story. Isn't Yeager still alive?

Al Hook

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by hook00pad

Isn't Yeager still alive?

Yup, Chuck is alive and well. Below is a pic of Yeager standing beside his "airport-car" (EVERY pilot has an airport-car) Model 'A' at Edwards in 1950. DD