The Ford Barn

Ford56 · 01-30-2021, 06:52 PM

Just recently discovered a oil puddle under the rear of the '56 Ford Victoria about the size of a dinner plate. Dunno how long there has been a leak. Could be over a year, and I didn't notice. There is no whine or whirring or clunk or thunk going around corners or anywhere else. I'm thinking it is a leaking seal. Haven't had time yet to get it to a shop, but, I'm thinking the bearings and gears wouldn't be affected, because there isn't any "noise". What say you? Should I expect to have the seal replaced? Or, is it something else? Thanks!

dmsfrr · 01-30-2021, 07:14 PM

Pretty much only two things it can be... the gasket on the rear cover (unless it has a different style axle housing) or the seal on the pinion gear shaft.
If it's leaking at the front you should be able to see or find a bit of gear oil running down and back toward the lowest point on the housing.

darrell · 01-30-2021, 08:40 PM

your pinion seal should be where your leak is.your rearend will not have the back cover.

Ford56 · 01-30-2021, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrell

your pinion seal should be where your leak is.your rearend will not have the back cover.

That's what I was thinking too. I'll be taking it to a shop next week for the work. How long would it typically take for an experienced mechanic to do this job? The guy I'm taking it to has lots of experience w/this type of work, and in fact, used to own a '55 Ford himself (he's older, like me ...... Ha!)

50fordcoupeman · 01-30-2021, 10:02 PM

I had a leak at my pinion seal too with a puddle about the size of a silver dollar. About 80 miles later the pinion gear ate the ring gear because the pinion nut had come loose, thusly allowing a small oil leak. I could have prevented the whole catastrophy if I would have heeded the warning. My bad!!

50fordcoupeman · 01-30-2021, 10:36 PM

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Forgot to say-noise just means the damage has already occurred so dont wait for that!!

KULTULZ · 01-31-2021, 03:18 AM

If it still has the DANA, it has a rear cover. Before driving to a shop, I would fill the diff. It doesn't take much to ruin something.

One can hum on low lubricant but finding someone knowledgeable to work on it and finding correct parts is a challenge, If the pinion seal, the pinion bearing pre-load has to be checked along with bearing(s) wear.

Also check the rear vent. If plugged it can cause axle seal failure but if pressure is extreme it may also take a pinion seal.

Ford56 · 01-31-2021, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

If it still has the DANA, it has a rear cover. Before driving to a shop, I would fill the diff. It doesn't take much to ruin something.

One can hum on low lubricant but finding someone knowledgeable to work on it and finding correct parts is a challenge, If the pinion seal, the pinion bearing pre-load has to be checked along with bearing(s) wear.

Also check the rear vent. If plugged it can cause axle seal failure but if pressure is extreme it may also take a pinion seal.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, finding someone in this little town who has experience has been a challenge. Going to the usual small shops that have an older mechanic whose actually worked on "old" cars, is pretty disappointing when they said they won't work on differentials any more. Sigh. So, I finally found one guy who would/does, and I've an appointment for next Thursday. I don't have a lift, and don't trust ramps anymore, so, I'm not going to be able to get under it to fill the diff. It is only a one mile trip to the shop, so, I'm going to go "as is". Since I have no idea how long this has been going on, one more mile shouldn't do me in. Thanks again for the advice. Any idea on how long it will take the mechanic to replace the pinion seal?

darrell · 01-31-2021, 10:01 AM

this is a very simple job.a half hour should do it.

KULTULZ · 01-31-2021, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Any idea on how long it will take the mechanic to replace the pinion seal?

That is going to depend entirely on what he finds and what parts he has to chase.

The main reason a regular shop does not like to get involved is that something like this may tie a lift up and lose money.

I have a 2005 TAURUS now that is driving me crazy as most parts are no longer available and everything I touch seems to break or someone has been in there previously and rigged something.

Ford56 · 01-31-2021, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

That is going to depend entirely on what he finds and what parts he has to chase.

The main reason a regular shop does not like to get involved is that something like this may tie a lift up and lose money.

I have a 2005 TAURUS now that is driving me crazy as most parts are no longer available and everything I touch seems to break or someone has been in there previously and rigged something.

Yeah, I'm concerned about him having to chase after the seal & parts. I'll offer to chase them down at NAPA, if that'll help speed him along. I'll keep you posted. Thx again.

KULTULZ · 01-31-2021, 11:45 AM

Yeah, please keep the board updated, preferably on this thread.

Ford56 · 02-04-2021, 03:45 PM

Okay, for anybody who was looking for an update, here ya go:
The mechanic changed out the pinion seal and drained and put in new oil. Initially there was some calling around for the seal, and all the sources kept saying for a DANA, but, this differential isn't a DANA. So, it took some time to get the right one, but, NAPA had one. The oil was pretty thick, and the guys were laughing about it, and called me over to show me. Guess it hasn't been changed since Hector Was A Pup.

All looks good and clean back there, and since there never was any noise, it still sounds the same.

Should I go back after driving the car some more to do another oil change in the differential in case they didn't get all the old crud out? They DID let it drain for almost 30 minutes, and nothing else was coming out. Thanks.

5851a · 02-04-2021, 04:38 PM

Glad it worked out for you.

Dobie Gillis · 02-04-2021, 04:45 PM

"Should I go back after driving the car some more to do another oil change in the differential in case they didn't get all the old crud out? They DID let it drain for almost 30 minutes, and nothing else was coming out."

It's prolly OK as is but if you're concerned about it you can drain it, fill it wit a solvent like diesel fuel, jack the rear wheels off the ground and run it at idle for a couple of minutes to circulate the solvent, then drain the solvent until it stops dripping and refill it with diff oil. There won't be a substantial load on the diff with the wheels off the ground.

55blacktie · 02-04-2021, 05:01 PM

I don't like the idea of running on stands w/o gear oil; things happen. If it makes you feel better, drain it, wipe it out, spray it down with carb cleaner, WD40, etc., while spinning wheel by hand, wipe it out again, button it up, and re-fill it. Make sure gasket surfaces are clean and torque cover bolts in sequence. Hopefully it won't leak when finished.

KULTULZ · 02-04-2021, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Initially there was some calling around for the seal, and all the sources kept saying for a DANA, but, this differential isn't a DANA.

It was most likely a DANA, but a model most have not seen for fifty years.

Just so you know, the seal should have a STAMPING I.D. NO (as will bearings/cups) that can be crossed into a modern PN.

Yes, change the fluid again. No solvents as it doesn't take much to damage a bearing/cup. A modern fluid will have detergents that should take the sludge/varnish down after a while.

All the above is IMO.

Ford56 · 02-04-2021, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

I don't like the idea of running on stands w/o gear oil; things happen. If it makes you feel better, drain it, wipe it out, spray it down with carb cleaner, WD40, etc., while spinning wheel by hand, wipe it out again, button it up, and re-fill it. Make sure gasket surfaces are clean and torque cover bolts in sequence. Hopefully it won't leak when finished.

The "hopefully it won't leak when finished" comment makes me chuckle, because it has been my history to almost always goof up something I tighten and have to do it over just to stop a weeping leak.

KULTULZ · 02-05-2021, 09:48 AM

Someone ...

... should have suggested taking photos while it was in the air and to do a finger dip test of the open carrier to see how badly it was sludged and if any metallic particles and what to look for to ID the rear.

Getting hard to find good help with the war(s) and all.

5851a · 02-05-2021, 01:31 PM

Yes if you change lube try to get a picture. Until now I thought the Dana only came in wagons and Tbird in 56 or trucks.

01-30-2021, 06:52 PM	#1
Ford56 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 159	Leaking differential Just recently discovered a oil puddle under the rear of the '56 Ford Victoria about the size of a dinner plate. Dunno how long there has been a leak. Could be over a year, and I didn't notice. There is no whine or whirring or clunk or thunk going around corners or anywhere else. I'm thinking it is a leaking seal. Haven't had time yet to get it to a shop, but, I'm thinking the bearings and gears wouldn't be affected, because there isn't any "noise". What say you? Should I expect to have the seal replaced? Or, is it something else? Thanks!

01-30-2021, 08:40 PM	#3
darrell Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: p.e.i. Posts: 1,060	Re: Leaking differential your pinion seal should be where your leak is.your rearend will not have the back cover.

01-30-2021, 10:02 PM	#5
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 865	Re: Leaking differential I had a leak at my pinion seal too with a puddle about the size of a silver dollar. About 80 miles later the pinion gear ate the ring gear because the pinion nut had come loose, thusly allowing a small oil leak. I could have prevented the whole catastrophy if I would have heeded the warning. My bad!!

01-30-2021, 10:36 PM	#6
50fordcoupeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: LaGrande Oregon Posts: 865	Re: Leaking differential Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Forgot to say-noise just means the damage has already occurred so dont wait for that!!

01-31-2021, 03:18 AM	#7
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,466	Re: Leaking differential If it still has the DANA, it has a rear cover. Before driving to a shop, I would fill the diff. It doesn't take much to ruin something. One can hum on low lubricant but finding someone knowledgeable to work on it and finding correct parts is a challenge, If the pinion seal, the pinion bearing pre-load has to be checked along with bearing(s) wear. Also check the rear vent. If plugged it can cause axle seal failure but if pressure is extreme it may also take a pinion seal. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

01-31-2021, 10:01 AM	#9
darrell Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: p.e.i. Posts: 1,060	Re: Leaking differential this is a very simple job.a half hour should do it.

01-31-2021, 11:45 AM	#12
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,466	Re: Leaking differential Yeah, please keep the board updated, preferably on this thread. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

02-04-2021, 03:45 PM	#13
Ford56 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 159	Re: Leaking differential Okay, for anybody who was looking for an update, here ya go: The mechanic changed out the pinion seal and drained and put in new oil. Initially there was some calling around for the seal, and all the sources kept saying for a DANA, but, this differential isn't a DANA. So, it took some time to get the right one, but, NAPA had one. The oil was pretty thick, and the guys were laughing about it, and called me over to show me. Guess it hasn't been changed since Hector Was A Pup. All looks good and clean back there, and since there never was any noise, it still sounds the same. Should I go back after driving the car some more to do another oil change in the differential in case they didn't get all the old crud out? They DID let it drain for almost 30 minutes, and nothing else was coming out. Thanks.

02-04-2021, 04:38 PM	#14
5851a Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: NE Iowa Posts: 1,664	Re: Leaking differential Glad it worked out for you.

02-04-2021, 04:45 PM	#15
Dobie Gillis Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Middle TN Posts: 1,060	Re: Leaking differential "Should I go back after driving the car some more to do another oil change in the differential in case they didn't get all the old crud out? They DID let it drain for almost 30 minutes, and nothing else was coming out." It's prolly OK as is but if you're concerned about it you can drain it, fill it wit a solvent like diesel fuel, jack the rear wheels off the ground and run it at idle for a couple of minutes to circulate the solvent, then drain the solvent until it stops dripping and refill it with diff oil. There won't be a substantial load on the diff with the wheels off the ground. __________________ Often wrong but never in doubt.

02-04-2021, 05:01 PM	#16
55blacktie Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 441	Re: Leaking differential I don't like the idea of running on stands w/o gear oil; things happen. If it makes you feel better, drain it, wipe it out, spray it down with carb cleaner, WD40, etc., while spinning wheel by hand, wipe it out again, button it up, and re-fill it. Make sure gasket surfaces are clean and torque cover bolts in sequence. Hopefully it won't leak when finished.

02-05-2021, 09:48 AM	#19
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,466	Re: Leaking differential Someone ... ... should have suggested taking photos while it was in the air and to do a finger dip test of the open carrier to see how badly it was sludged and if any metallic particles and what to look for to ID the rear. Getting hard to find good help with the war(s) and all. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

02-05-2021, 01:31 PM	#20
5851a Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: NE Iowa Posts: 1,664	Re: Leaking differential Yes if you change lube try to get a picture. Until now I thought the Dana only came in wagons and Tbird in 56 or trucks.