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Old 04-07-2019, 11:55 AM   #21
Joe K
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Default Re: The A will not move

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Originally Posted by bobmc View Post
Joe K


If the two other gears are engaged even though the shift forks indicate the trans is in neutral wouldn't the car stall when the clutch is released?
Also there was not bang or noise when he shifted from reverse to first. Remember he backed the car out of the garage, shifted gears and no forward motion, also no rear motion. It's like something came apart! but what?

Very true. You're reading the details while I am "skimming" and caught a high point.



My bad.


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Old 04-07-2019, 12:56 PM   #22
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Default Re: The A will not move

I had a similar situation. Installed a new rear end, went to test drive it, worked in Reverse but not in any forward gear. When releasing clutch in forward gear car stalled.
A fellow from our club stopped by with a very small pry bar type screw driver. Put the car in third gear, rocked it back and forth, he placed the pry bar ever so gently between the transmission case and the gear closest to the aft of the transmission.Gently rocked it and the transmission came unstuck.
I am not saying that is the case with yours but you might try it.
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:00 PM   #23
Patrick L.
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Default Re: The A will not move

With what you have said, sounds as if its a broken axle. Can probably/maybe be fixed without removing the rear end.
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: The A will not move

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With what you have said, sounds as if its a broken axle. Can probably/maybe be fixed without removing the rear end.

Um. In a word - no.

To replace an axle means taking apart the "pumpkin." And to get there from here means removing the axle from the spring.

It may be possible to drive out the shackles by use of a "spring spreader" and thereby drop the important part - but you'll be wheeling it over to a bench, removing the wheels and hubs, and pulling the axle(s), differential/ring gear, unbolting the differential enclosure to access the axle ends/spider gears.

And then, rebuilding the whole thing again with a new axle.

It may be possible that you can escape the "bluing" and gear contact part of the exercise of setting up a rear axle - after all, all you're doing is exchanging one captive part for another. All the other dimensions/relative locations of parts are set in the pumpkin/enclosure.

The only really difficult part I see is in disassembly of the pumpkin, you no doubt will tear a gasket. Not insurmountable but the gasket thickness IS where pinion/ring gear contact is set. If you do tear, use a micrometer to find the total thickness of gasket (there may be layers) AND document its location on the assembly (right or left.

And DON'T swap the trumpet housings left to right inadvertently. That same bluing/gear contact issue will surface if you do. (i.e. the relative position of the bearing to the flange of the trumpet housing may be slightly different side to side.)

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Last edited by Joe K; 04-07-2019 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: The A will not move

I replaces an axle in my sept 29 strip down without removing the back end . I used a spring spreader and removed the spring shackle on the drivers side . I carefully unbolted the drivers side axle housing and was able to remove it without tearing the gasket up too badly .. I removed the axle nut and then the hub and drum on the passenger side . I could then pull doth axles and differential out from the drivers side . The differential housing will need to be unbolted and separated . Marke the differential housing so that you will be able to bolt it back together , the same way that it came appart . There are three spider gears that fit between the axles . Start the replacement axle through the removed side of the differential and fit the pieces back together as they came apart . I used non hardening gasket maker and fitted the pieces of the gasket back in place . The back end had been silent before disassembly . I didn't remove any bearings and could really see no need in going through the usual bearing set up ritual . The back end is still quiet . the only reason that I replaced the axle was because the threads were bad .
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:32 PM   #26
BillLee/Chandler, TX
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Default Re: The A will not move

For diagnosis: If the axle is broken, wouldn't the wheel/hub/broken part of the axle be capable of being pulled out of the axle housing? It's only the axle with the attached axle gear (inside the carrier) that holds the wheel/hub in place. If the axle is broken, there isn't anything keeping the wheel/hub/broken axle in place.
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:01 PM   #27
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Default Re: The A will not move

If the axle is broken , a person should be able to grab the wheel on the broken axle side and be able to remove the wheel and axle just by pulling . usually the wheel and axle fall off and the rear fender and possible the body get damaged . It could cause a wreck. I doubt that an axle is broken .
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:23 PM   #28
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Default Re: The A will not move

If I were going to replace a broken axle at home I would pull the entire rear end and disassemble it and rebuild it up from ground zero. However more than one broken axle has been replaced in the parking lot of a hotel without the rear end being removed from the car. Attached article is how it is done.


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Old 04-08-2019, 02:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: The A will not move

Title sounds like some tenants I have had in a rental! (:>)
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Old 04-09-2019, 10:36 AM   #30
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Default Re: The A will not move

Hello again


Sorry for not responding but I have been out of town for a couple days. After reading all your comments and having a fresh mind set I went over to the car again this morning. First thing I did was to pull on both axel's to see if they were broke, neither one cam out. Next I removed the fill plug in the rear end to see if the ring gear turned, with the trans in all three forward gears and reverse, there was no movement of the ring gear. Moved up to the spedo gear and removed the drive assemble from the bottom of the trans, again in all gears there was not movement. Now I did not have the motor running I was turning the gears with the starter, I did not think the slower revolutions would make a difference. Looking at the universal joint with the limited viewing it still appears to turn. There are two 1/4 inch holes in the clam shell that I am looking in and I see movement both forward and reverse.
Never seeing an old style riveted u joint I am wondering if it came apart, and only the outside is turning?


Thanks again for all your responses.
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Old 04-09-2019, 01:03 PM   #31
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Default Re: The A will not move

Well, you're certainly narrowing it down.

It is possible the ring type universal is come apart. IIRC, the front portion of the universal is bolted to the output shaft of the tranny - but the rear portion of the universal is free to move on its spline - and if the ring comes apart, the back portion of the universal moves to the back away from the ring and other yoke.

As long as the front universal yoke clears the back and the two yokes don't hang up on each other - no movement between front and back can occur.

That is unless your ring gets hung up between the two yokes and decides to go "sideways" and comes out through the clamshells.

I would check it next by removing the clamshells and try pulling the axle to the rear to the limit of your spring (oh - undo your brake rods before you do this.) You can pull the axle back about and inch or inch and a half and this might be enough to REALLY see what is going on inside the half sphere.


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Old 04-09-2019, 04:45 PM   #32
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Default Re: The A will not move

jw


I have the spedo off the drive shaft and used the starter to turn over the engine in all gears 1,st 2nd 3rd and rev.


at no time did the spedo gear turn but the ujoint will turn forward and backwards with the correct gear used. We are planning to pull the entire rear end on Thursday. Don't know if I want to use the spring spreader and remove the shackle's or unbolt the u bolts and remove with spring attached. When we spin the rear wheels you can see the ring gear turn in both directions. ruling out broken axel?

Last edited by bobmc; 04-09-2019 at 04:48 PM. Reason: additional information
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:59 PM   #33
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Default Re: The A will not move

Are you saying that the u-joint is turning but the speedometer drive gear is not turning?

If I am understanding you. That would mean the drive shaft is also not moving. Could you have a broken u-joint?
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: The A will not move

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Are you saying that the u-joint is turning but the speedometer drive gear is not turning?

If I am understanding you. That would mean the drive shaft is also not moving. Could you have a broken u-joint?
Or maybe the drive shaft is broken just behind the universal.
We're narrowing it down now!
I suggest pulling the rear end back and having a look-see.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: The A will not move

Attached is a picture of a riveted universal joint.

If the rivets come loose, the rotational movement will push the splined half back on the spline on the driveshaft. You will have all of the symptoms you describe. I'd look here first before doing any disassembly of the rear end.

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Old 04-09-2019, 10:06 PM   #36
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Default Re: The A will not move

I have seen a drive stub shaft broken at the forward end of the key slot. This is similar to where an axle shaft breaks. The cause can be the nut not torqued sufficiently allowing the pinion sleeve some movement which will work against the key and cause a crack to start at the forward end of the slot. Eventually the crack will work its way around the circumference and break off.


This phenomenon is more prevalent with cottage industry overdrives installed where the builder did not line up the housing sections properly and had the stub shaft on a bias.


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Old 04-10-2019, 05:54 AM   #37
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Default Re: The A will not move

Hmm, this is different isn't it. Kinda sounds as if the rear end does have to come out. I prefer to remove it with the spring attached if the car can be raised enough to allow the spring to clear everything. But, in this case it may be better to leave the spring in the car [ use a spreader].
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Old 04-11-2019, 02:21 PM   #38
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Default Re: The A will not move

Well the verdict is in!


We pulled the rear end today, removing the shackles using the spring spreader. The rear end / torque tube assembly moved back and down. The universal joint remained attached to the trans.
Now in order to explain what happened let me tell you how the universal joint is assembled. There is a yoke that attaches to the output shaft of the trans with a bolt/lock washer and special washer with a tab. Then there is the inner part the is sold as a repair for the universal join. Followed by the rear yoke that slides onto the driveshaft coming from the rear end. The rear yoke broke in two pieces. The brake was in such a manor that the two pieces could pass each other without touching.
Now we contacted two of the well known vendors and both informed us that the unit they sell is not in stock due to mfg. issues. We were able to locate one from another vendor who claims that he has no experience with any of his ujoints. We should have it in our hand by next week. Time will tell if it is going to fit. As a back up plan we have the option to acquire a good used one.


Thanks for all your help and support.


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Old 04-11-2019, 03:26 PM   #39
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Default Re: The A will not move

A V8 U-joint would also work................
Paul in CT
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:33 PM   #40
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Default Re: The A will not move

If it's shaped like the one on the left it won't work.


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