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Old 10-06-2018, 08:34 AM   #1
Ralph S.
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Default Oil pan removal

Hi
Did my first oil change on the 41 since finally getting it here. To be safe I used non detergent oil as I'm not sure what oil was used in the car previously and don't want to start moving bunch of sludge through the motor with detergent oil. Oil plug had a light coat of grayish stuff on it so it's safe to assume bottom of oil pan looks similar or worse. As I did some research I've learned that removing oil pan to inspect it closer and clean it may be a royal pain. Just want to confirm it and see if it can be done without pulling the motor or making it into a major project. Car is a 41 Coupe. I'd like to drop the pan, clean it out and slowly transition to modern detergent oil, getting decent quality non detergent oil seems to be pretty hard task nowadays. Also, what is that thing sticking out of the pan behind the oil drain plug?
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:12 PM   #2
alanwoodieman
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

the gray color is probably a mixture of oil/water, caused by the oil not getting hot enough to burn off the condensation. I would put detergent oil in the engine and run the car for 500 miles then change it. use a 20x50 oil with detergent and change every 1000 miles. a light sheen of gray will not hurt the engine
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Old 10-06-2018, 07:29 PM   #3
Kube
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

I'm with Alan on this one. Use modern 20w/50 and change it fairly often.

That "thing" hanging out of the pan is a cotter pin. It's supposed to be there. Believe it or not, it is designed to rattle within its hole and thereby keep that hole open and allow any oil that escaped the back of the crankshaft to drip out.
If the oil didn't drain out, it would all too soon contaminate the clutch disc.
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

I realize a lot of forum members here favor the 20w-50 oil viscosity but I have always used the lower viscosity 10w-30 detergent and change it every 1000 miles. My rebuilt 59AB has over 35,000 miles on it, doesn't burn oil, no leaking seals, and at idle get 70 lbs pressure when cold and about 20 lbs when hot.

My primary reason for using the 10w-30 is my northeast colder climate and not doing too much long-distance highway driving.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:11 PM   #5
tubman
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

^^ I agree with this (unless your engine is very worn). To the O/P; that poor engine has already endured too many miles with non-detergent oil. Give it a dose of the good stuff. As anyone who has tried to clean a gunked up pan or lifter gallery can tell you, if a dose of detergent oil would do anything to loosen that crap up, we'd all be using it as a solvent.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:15 PM   #6
alanwoodieman
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

drbrown, you do realize that the early ford flathead (up to 59ab)did not have a contact rear oil seal, but a lambryth seal which is basically two slingers that threw the oil back into the engine. light weight oil simple went past these slingers and really leaked out the rear main. I just drove my 40 wagon 150 miles today at 50/55 mph, if I had done that with 10w30 oil it would have blown out about a qt of oil, which it did not
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:20 AM   #7
Ralph S.
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

Thank you for your responses everyone. For all I know the engine might have had modern detergent oil ran it it. My wife's grandpa built the car, in 1978 I believe and it hasn't been apart since then. He passed away about 4 years ago and nobody knows for sure what oil he used in the car. I'll drain the non detergent out and replace it with something better. Should I slowly transition to detergent oil, maybe like half and half first, then on the next oil change go full detergent?
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Old 10-07-2018, 04:07 PM   #8
keith oh
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

I use 10W 30 detergent oil in my1935 babbott bearing engine to get lubrication to bearings faster during cold starts and it does not throw oil past the rear oil seal. Heavier oil is not going to fix or quiet warn bearings.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:40 PM   #9
Drbrown
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

Ralph S .... Personally I don't think you need to "transition" to a different oil. Some might say don't mix different oils together, at least brands of oil .... but who knows ?

alanwoodieman .... thanks for your note. I'm aware that my 59AB has a slinger instead of a more modern rear crank seal. Even so, I don't lose any oil between oil changes and I don't get oil drippings on my garage floor. I'd certainly re-think my oil viscosity if I had problems but so far no problem.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph S. View Post
Hi
Just want to confirm it and see if it can be done without pulling the motor or making it into a major project. Car is a 41 Coupe. I'd like to drop the pan, clean it out and.
Yes it can be done without pulling the engine. Jack the car up so the front end hangs free. Support the car on jack stands on the frame. Disconnect the wishbone at the ball. Use a modern scissor jack to move the wishbone ball away from its socket. It needs to be moved about 10. Remove the starter then remove the pan. You will need to rotate the crank so the front counter weight is up to get the pan off. It is a bit of a PIA, but it is doable.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

It's a day job or a weekend deal. If you are even more ambitious you could even remove a few crank or rod caps. One at a time.


Pull the pan, good experience.


order all gaskets needed to put back on. You're not going to hurt anything outside learning something. Clean the pump screen too.







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Old 04-08-2019, 09:56 AM   #12
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoodieman View Post
drbrown, you do realize that the early ford flathead (up to 59ab)did not have a contact rear oil seal, but a lambryth seal which is basically two slingers that threw the oil back into the engine. light weight oil simple went past these slingers and really leaked out the rear main. I just drove my 40 wagon 150 miles today at 50/55 mph, if I had done that with 10w30 oil it would have blown out about a qt of oil, which it did not
Does this mean my 1940 has no rear main seal?
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:04 AM   #13
Flathead Fever
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

Delo 15W40 diesel oil is what I use. Because the wear additives that use to protect flat tappet cams have been eliminated for emission reasons I now use oil designed for diesel engines. The high compression ratios of diesel engines increases the pressure and wear on bearings so the the anti-wear additives cannot be eliminated. Walmart has it the cheapest.

I had friend that was a hydraulic engineer. When he retired he opened a quick lube. He was dead against using 50W oil. Saying that if the oil was too thick and could not flow as easily, a lot of the oil would end up going out the pressure relief valve. I'm not sure if that is true or not but he was smart guy. When I was a kid all of my firends used straight 50W Valvoline racing oil in our muscles cars. Why, because it said "Racing" on the can.

The oil weight probably has a lot to do with the bearing clearances the engine is setup with. A race engine is setup with loose clearances. Also, the thicker oil might not squeeze out between the bearings as easily as thinner oil and it doesn't loose its viscosity at higher temperatures so 50W is a better choice.


No new cars except for the diesel engines use an oil with more viscosity than 10W-30W.. I have one vehicle that uses 5W-30W, one that uses 5W-20W and 2014 Chevy truck that uses 0W-20W synthetic (it comes out of the bottle like water). These newer engines last tree times as long as a flathead. I'm sure its a combination of better oil filters, PCV valves, better air filters and most importantly better detergent oil and probably the lower viscosity oil. We can argue the benefits of using different oil viscosity but what we can't argue is the need for those anti-wear additives to protect our flathead lifters and cam.


Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 is a mixed fleet motor oil recommended for naturally aspirated and turbocharged four-stroke diesel engines and four-stroke gasoline engines in which the API CJ-4 service category and SAE 15W-40 viscosity grade are recommended. It is formulated for engines operating under severe service and a wide range of climatic conditions.

Last edited by Flathead Fever; 04-08-2019 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:51 PM   #14
philipswanson
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

OK so does the 40 flathead have a rope seal or just a slinger?
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Oil pan removal

Depends on what crank was used. Found out that my 59AB had a earlier crank with a slinger when I tilted it after hoisting it from the truck. The oil just poured right out. Note to self: Drain oil first.
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