The Ford Barn

bobsmanstuff · 04-16-2019, 05:30 PM

I have another question about the pump. Is the shaft for the 4 blade bigger then the shaft on a 2 blade? I have an old 2 blade and the shaft is smaller and didn't know if it was maybe for an earlier car or not.

Joe K · 04-16-2019, 06:13 PM

The shafts are all the same - at least among Ford products.

There have been some "off brand" replicants made of the Model A Water pump. It was a world where one was encouraged to somehow "improve" upon Henry Ford's engineering. "Western Auto" was a frequent source of improvements. Likewise "Pep-boys" which is similar but not so much here in New England. Even Sears-Roebuck was into the "improvements" game.

I have at least four water pumps that will fit in the place of the Ford pump, pump like the Ford pump, mount a fan like the Ford pump, and each has advantages and disadvantages unique to themselves. These tend to be quite "utilitarian" in comparison with the Ford pump. I think many were used on Industrial motors.

"Early" Model A Ford pumps are characterized by a "small" frame hole centered low. Later the hole became larger and the more recognizable dimensions.

I had one pump which came to me which had the large hole (not early) and yet the pump didn't have the usual roller front bearing - rather a bronze sleeve which the grease fitting fed. The pump nose was left "heavy" as in the usual roller type dimensions but a small hole with the bronze pressed in. I have heard tell that even Ford experimented with the water pumps: mine might have been original Ford. It was obviously not a successful experiment as the bronze sleeve was worn nearly half way off center on the belt pull side. That one got bored out and a standard sleeve/rollers fitted to it.

Joe K

bobsmanstuff · 04-16-2019, 06:43 PM

Thanks Joe, so if I were to buy a new 2 blade fan it should bolt on to the pump I have now with the bigger shaft? I also wanted to mention and forgot, I have a double pulley on the pump. The fan belt fits on the outside pulley. What would the other one be for? It doesn't seem to hurt anything. thanks again.Bob

redmodelt · 04-16-2019, 06:46 PM

Bigger how? Longer? Bigger in diameter?

Bob C · 04-16-2019, 06:53 PM

I think we need some pictures of what you have.

Bob

bobsmanstuff · 04-16-2019, 07:29 PM

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I meant the shaft's diameter was bigger. I've since figured what i need. Thanks for the help.

redmodelt · 04-17-2019, 04:29 PM

If the shaft is bigger diameter, could be home made. Talked to a guy that has been around A parts for a long time. Originally the shaft started out at X diameter then was ground polished to size. Some years back when people at home started using stainless steel for shafts they would have used a stock size shafting that was not ground so could be a bit larger. Or it could be an aftermarket pump that used non Ford bearing and bushings that were not made to Fords specks.

bobsmanstuff · 04-17-2019, 05:30 PM

The shaft that's on the pump now is the right size, it's the extra one I have that is smaller in diameter. It's probably not a Ford pump. Thanks

04-16-2019, 05:30 PM	#1
bobsmanstuff Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Mora Minn Posts: 167	water pump I have another question about the pump. Is the shaft for the 4 blade bigger then the shaft on a 2 blade? I have an old 2 blade and the shaft is smaller and didn't know if it was maybe for an earlier car or not.

04-16-2019, 06:13 PM	#2
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: water pump The shafts are all the same - at least among Ford products. There have been some "off brand" replicants made of the Model A Water pump. It was a world where one was encouraged to somehow "improve" upon Henry Ford's engineering. "Western Auto" was a frequent source of improvements. Likewise "Pep-boys" which is similar but not so much here in New England. Even Sears-Roebuck was into the "improvements" game. I have at least four water pumps that will fit in the place of the Ford pump, pump like the Ford pump, mount a fan like the Ford pump, and each has advantages and disadvantages unique to themselves. These tend to be quite "utilitarian" in comparison with the Ford pump. I think many were used on Industrial motors. "Early" Model A Ford pumps are characterized by a "small" frame hole centered low. Later the hole became larger and the more recognizable dimensions. I had one pump which came to me which had the large hole (not early) and yet the pump didn't have the usual roller front bearing - rather a bronze sleeve which the grease fitting fed. The pump nose was left "heavy" as in the usual roller type dimensions but a small hole with the bronze pressed in. I have heard tell that even Ford experimented with the water pumps: mine might have been original Ford. It was obviously not a successful experiment as the bronze sleeve was worn nearly half way off center on the belt pull side. That one got bored out and a standard sleeve/rollers fitted to it. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

04-16-2019, 06:43 PM	#3
bobsmanstuff Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Mora Minn Posts: 167	Re: water pump Thanks Joe, so if I were to buy a new 2 blade fan it should bolt on to the pump I have now with the bigger shaft? I also wanted to mention and forgot, I have a double pulley on the pump. The fan belt fits on the outside pulley. What would the other one be for? It doesn't seem to hurt anything. thanks again.Bob

04-16-2019, 06:46 PM	#4
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: water pump Bigger how? Longer? Bigger in diameter? __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

04-16-2019, 06:53 PM	#5
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,751	Re: water pump I think we need some pictures of what you have. Bob

04-16-2019, 07:29 PM	#6
bobsmanstuff Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Mora Minn Posts: 167	Re: water pump Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I meant the shaft's diameter was bigger. I've since figured what i need. Thanks for the help.

04-17-2019, 04:29 PM	#7
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: water pump If the shaft is bigger diameter, could be home made. Talked to a guy that has been around A parts for a long time. Originally the shaft started out at X diameter then was ground polished to size. Some years back when people at home started using stainless steel for shafts they would have used a stock size shafting that was not ground so could be a bit larger. Or it could be an aftermarket pump that used non Ford bearing and bushings that were not made to Fords specks. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

04-17-2019, 05:30 PM	#8
bobsmanstuff Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Mora Minn Posts: 167	Re: water pump The shaft that's on the pump now is the right size, it's the extra one I have that is smaller in diameter. It's probably not a Ford pump. Thanks