is this proper spark timing?

[drumyn29]

I pulled the plugs and got the car to TDC. The plugs were dirty so I wire brushed them a bit.

I have points at 16 thousands right at the start of the lobe, does that seem right?

Please remember this is the very first time I have ever adjusted points.

[Tudortomnz]

You should get a reprint of the Instruction Book [ issued with every car] or better still one of the Model A manuals such as the recent Beginners Guide to Model A Ford by Les Pearson, available from any Model A Parts Houses.
No one seems to like buying any of these books now ; you will learn so much, it is well worth the modest cost.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

The points should be 20/22 thou at the wide open spot

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yes, find the high spot on the cam and set the points to .020". The gap between the rotor and cap looks to be too much. You might need to buy a new cap or rotor or both. When the timing is set correctly the rotor should be in this position when the timing pin drops into the cam gear dimple.

BTW, if my rotor looks different, it's because I used my Dremel to cut away some of the excess material, then installed two screws with nuts to balance the rotor.

[norway]

Here you can see how to fine-tune the ignition from this video. I did this on my car. and my ford model a is running very pretty now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwirH7f0a9o

[drumyn29]

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yes, find the high spot on the cam and set the points to .020". The gap between the rotor and cap looks to be too much. You might need to buy a new cap or rotor or both. When the timing is set correctly the rotor should be in this position when the timing pin drops into the cam gear dimple.

BTW, if my rotor looks different, it's because I used my Dremel to cut away some of the excess material, then installed two screws with nuts to balance the rotor.

You have a really good eye, I just set the rotor on for the picture.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yes, find the high spot on the cam and set the points to .020". The gap between the rotor and cap looks to be too much. You might need to buy a new cap or rotor or both. When the timing is set correctly the rotor should be in this position when the timing pin drops into the cam gear dimple.

BTW, if my rotor looks different, it's because I used my Dremel to cut away some of the excess material, then installed two screws with nuts to balance the rotor.

As I was adjusting the cam I noticed that there is a little play in the distributer shaft, now I'm stumped on where the ACTUAL high spot is. I adjusted where It seemed right and then gave it a bit more advance and tightened everything down, she seems to be running great.

[tbirdtbird]

be sure to keep the distrib. shaft oiled via the oiler.

Marco has an excellent web page to be studied to get this all correct:
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

[Tom Wesenberg]

All the freeplay should be in front of the rotor and the rotor turns CCW, so the play should all be to the left of the rotor in my picture. In other words lightly try to turn the rotor clockwise and it shouldn't move, but if you have some freeplay you should be able to turn the rotor CCW a bit.

If you push the rotor or shaft sideways, there should be no play. If you feel more than about .001" side play, it can be fixed with new bushing and a shaft.

When the timing pin drops into the dimple in the cam gear, this is TDC and the rotor should be in the position shown in my picture above.

[drumyn29]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

When the timing pin drops into the dimple in the cam gear, this is TDC and the rotor should be in the position shown in my picture above.

Thats exactly what I used as my starting point. It's not side play it seems like retard/ advance play.

I changed points and condenser and everything seems fine. However I don't like how fragile the wire is going into the distributer.

[Big John]

Better check the lobes on your cam with a micrometer as most repros will vary a great deal....also reccomend a owners manual will help you....

[Dick M]

Do a search on this site for the Les Andrews timing video. It is a two part video which takes you from a to z in timing a Model A.

[V4F]

buy Les Andrews red book .........

[Purdy Swoft]

The pictures in post # 1 show that the timing is retarded and the points gap is incorrect and only make matters worse. Factory specs for points gap is .018 to .022 . The MOST important thing about model A timing is where the rotor tip points . No clockwise backlash should be alowed to remain in the distributor shaft when the points cam is tightened . Backlash is the rotational movement in the distributor shaft. The more the wear on the oil pump and distributor drive gears, the more backlash the distributor shaft will have. When the engine runs, the distributor shaft turns in the counter clockwise direction but rides on the clockwise end of the backlash. This is why adjusting the points cam so that ALL of the backlash is in the counter clockwise direction is MOST important. The trailing edge of the rotor tip should point at the number one contact in the distributor cap body with no clockwise backlash, just as Tom has it pictured in post # 4 .Backlash in the counter clockwise direction has NO effect on timing or anything else.. Points gap is important because the spark occurs when the points open. With the spark lever fully retarded, the points should be just ready to open when the rotor tip is pointed EXACTLY as hown in post#4 with NO clockwise backlash. The engine should run pretty good with the points gap within specs of .018 to .022 . More gap within specs advances timing because the points will actually open quicker with a wider gap. The maximum gap of .022 is as far as you should go without the risk of starter kickback at the starter or the hand crank. Starter kick back is when the engine is fighting compression at TDC and acts like the battery is too weak to turn the engine. Kickback at the hand crank can break your arm. As a side note, some pay so much attention to points gap that they allow backlash to retard the timing.

[drumyn29]

I changed the points and condenser a month or so ago and I finally got the car registered and i have been driving the crap out of it for a couple days but now it feels sluggish and has even died out a few times and of course popping at start up, could condenser be junk already?

I cleaned the carb a bit without taking it completely apart and nothing changed.

[Ed Saniewski]

Check your point gap again, it may have opened up a bit with the new points.

[Jim/GA]

Did you lube the points cam with a little cam grease? You need to. If you don't have cam lube (need to buy some) use a light smear of Vasoline on one cam lobe for now.

Check your point gap again. The little cam follower wears down on a new points set and the points close up. This weakens your spark and retards your initial timing. Both make it run sluggish. Adjust them back out to 0.020".

It is always possible that your new condenser has died already. (I have heard of 2 or 3 in a row dead right out of the package!) But not as likely as the cam follower wearing down. If adjusting point gap back out does not clear it up, test a new condenser. Easy and low cost test. If no improvement, swap them back. You should have a spare condenser on hand anyway.

It is not clear to me what you mean by "not taking it (the carb) completely apart".

You can clean a Model A carb "good enough" by removing the single bolt from the bottom and slide the lower half of the carb body off of the upper half (which remains bolted to the intake manifold). Open the GAV some. Hold carb body upside down and spray carb cleaner into each jet tip to blow any junk backwards through passages and into bowl (which then runs down your arm ). Reassemble and drive.

Good luck and have fun!

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by Tudortomnz

You should get a reprint of the Instruction Book [ issued with every car] or better still one of the Model A manuals such as the recent Beginners Guide to Model A Ford by Les Pearson, available from any Model A Parts Houses.
No one seems to like buying any of these books now ; you will learn so much, it is well worth the modest cost.

Years ago I was the engine/transmission/differential tech for an auto dealership. The other mechanics developed a habit of asking me for information when they would hit a snag. Many times when I would answer they would stand there and argue with me. I finally developed the policy that when ever I was approached with a question I just sent them to the tech room with, "look in the book". I never understood why anyone would just go in and start fiddling with machinery and not having the slightest idea what or why. Before I start asking questions I look up the information, it isn't hard to find. Then at least I have some fundamentals to work with. The information in the Model A books is priceless and a bargain. I anyone doesn't agree check the prices on some of the newer tech. manuals. Last time I checked in 2004 the manual for a large reel mower was almost $500.00 Get the book-study it-study the machine-then ask lots of questions.


Chet

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by drumyn29

I pulled the plugs and got the car to TDC. The plugs were dirty so I wire brushed them a bit.

I have points at 16 thousands right at the start of the lobe, does that seem right?

Please remember this is the very first time I have ever adjusted points.

A wire brush is a good way to ruin an otherwise good sparkplug. Another lesson that I learned the hard way.

Chet

[redmodelt]

How wire brushing the crud off the end of the spark plug ruin it?