The Ford Barn

bettlesr · 12-08-2014, 02:13 PM

Hardtimes:
Try searching for the thread "Oil pressure dropping on right turns "
we went back and forth a number of times. It was started by me on 08/21/2012.
As you replied back then, you might find it under your posts. The picture of the finished pan was posted on 4/28/14. Ahh! just figured out how to copy the picture.

"I know this post is a little late, however, I just finished making a trap door baffled oil pan. I put it in about two weeks ago. There is no dipper tray as the engine has a full pressure system. I am using the Stipe oil pump. I got the starting ideas for this from Jim Brierley's book.
On the trip to Hellertown last Saturday, I could not see any drop in pressure no matter how hard I went around right corners or the highway exit ramps.
Thanks to all who have posted suggestions to me."
Thanks
Dick

hardtimes · 12-08-2014, 11:41 PM

Hey Dick,
Thanks for picture, nice work too !
I thought that this subject , connected with you and Jim, sounded a little familiar also. So , I went back to Jim's book and reread it. He actually gives TWO ways to keep the oil up next to the pump. The way he suggests that you've done so well at, is what I wanted, but having no welder, I went with making and pop riveting in larger divider plates on the bottom of the dipper tray, where oil can seep around these plates, but slowly. As my dipper tray (blue picture ) shows, I drilled large oil drain holes in the bottoms where the rod dippers (now removed) passed thru. I think that both ways will work well and I don't need to buy a welder. Jim's book shows a picture of this second mod to dipper tray. Of course , this is only done when dippers removed for full pressure oiling. Are you running a full flow oil filter and do you have a picture of plumbing ?

BTW. .. I have a Stipe pump in my other B and it is a jewel of work, like all of Bills equipment. PRICEY tho, eh

! The pump shown above with my B pan, is a $25 V8 flathead equip purchase, with a $100. bunch of mods and puts out all the oil pressure that anyone could reasonably use (45 to 55). Machinist are like metal gods and create wonders !!

colin1928 · 12-09-2014, 01:55 AM

Hi Dick that's is really nice work very simular to how used to do them
my latest is the triangle design copied from Ed Winfield seams to well also

bettlesr · 12-09-2014, 11:31 AM

Hardtimes:
Sorry, I don't have a picture of the plumbing as Ora (Schwalm's) closed up the valve chamber when he sent the engine back to me.

colin1928:
I looked at a couple of designs and this seemed to be the best for me. Tricky part was figuring out how high to make them so the oil would not just go over the baffles and still not hit the crankshaft. I used a bore scope before finish welding and had a minimum of 1/4 between the closest parts. I scaled the locations of the front and rear baffles from Jim's book.

Jeff/Illinois · 12-09-2014, 12:19 PM

Don't you wish that Henry Ford, Loren Sorinsen, and Mr. Martin were here on FB answering questions that we post?

It would be interesting, to talk to the guys who were involved in manufacturing and engineering these cars and what their take would be on us messing with what they created

norway · 12-27-2014, 08:05 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

now i have worked so far that i can mount on my oil pan to my 1929 a ford engine.
but my oil baffle has 4 drilled holes (posted a picture here in this thread on side 1) and i said, i would weld it. but should i weld it or not?
now in I'm a little unsure.
thanks for the reply

James Rogers · 12-27-2014, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norway

now i have worked so far that i can mount on my oil pan to my 1929 a ford engine.
but my oil baffle has 4 drilled holes (posted a picture here in this thread on side 1) and i said, i would weld it. but should i weld it or not?
now in I'm a little unsure.
thanks for the reply

No, I have a collection of trays that were obviously punched at the factory. If you look at the service bullitens, you will find, Ford changed the fill tube 3 times and still had problems. The holes are an attempt to stop oil from dripping from the tube when running. The holes you show won't hurt anything and will probably help keep your engine clean on the outside. If you search my previous posts you will find more information on this.

norway · 12-27-2014, 08:23 AM

thanks for the reply james rogers. i will use it as it is.

Synchro909 · 12-27-2014, 05:50 PM

OK, Thanks guys. I now have a plan on what I am going to do but first, I have an A engine with a Stipe oil pump for which I have made a pressure relief valve set at 25 psi pressure. It feeds the middle main bearing. All other lubrication is as per original so it still has the dipper tray and I experience no drop in pressure on corners in that car. It works well (about 25,000 miles and no appreciable wear in the inserted mains or rods)
As for the B engine where I do lose pressure on RH corners, it runs a standard oil pump but all I have to monitor the oil pressure is a warning light which trips at 9 psi. It stays on for an uncomfortably long time after a RH turn. The crank has been drilled so it is a full pressure system with inserts in mains and big ends. How much pressure would the pump be delivering? If the B pump is the same as the A pump, how is it that I am getting over 9 psi normally?
I think my course of action is going to be put baffles in the sump as described above and an oil gauge rather than a light as a start and if needs be, a Stipe pump later.
I have to take that engine apart anyway. Even with a downdraft carb and 5.5:1 head, it is gutless. I don't know what the reconditioner did with the cam so I will degree it and go from there. Does anybody have figures on what timing Bill Stipe uses on his touring cam?
Now I'm heading out to the workshop!!!

darrylkmc · 12-27-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synchro909

As for the B engine where I do lose pressure on RH corners, it runs a standard oil pump but all I have to monitor the oil pressure is a warning light which trips at 9 psi. It stays on for an uncomfortably long time after a RH turn. The crank has been drilled so it is a full pressure system with inserts in mains and big ends. How much pressure would the pump be delivering? If the B pump is the same as the A pump, how is it that I am getting over 9 psi normally?

I do not have to solution to your oil pressure loss problem, however the Model A Oil Pump is Not the same as the Model B pump.

Model B pumps have an undercut shaft and larger outlet for the oil, Model B pump may be used in a Model A engine, but a Model A pump should never be used in a Model B engine. This is addressed in the Service Bulletins.

Darryl in Fairbanks

12-08-2014, 02:13 PM	#21
bettlesr Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Florham Park, NJ Posts: 396	Re: Drill or not to drill sump oil tray Hardtimes: Try searching for the thread "Oil pressure dropping on right turns " we went back and forth a number of times. It was started by me on 08/21/2012. As you replied back then, you might find it under your posts. The picture of the finished pan was posted on 4/28/14. Ahh! just figured out how to copy the picture. "I know this post is a little late, however, I just finished making a trap door baffled oil pan. I put it in about two weeks ago. There is no dipper tray as the engine has a full pressure system. I am using the Stipe oil pump. I got the starting ideas for this from Jim Brierley's book. On the trip to Hellertown last Saturday, I could not see any drop in pressure no matter how hard I went around right corners or the highway exit ramps. Thanks to all who have posted suggestions to me." Thanks Dick __________________ 1965 Lotus Elan S2 1930 Model A Sport Coupe

12-08-2014, 11:41 PM	#22
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Drill or not to drill sump oil tray Hey Dick, Thanks for picture, nice work too ! I thought that this subject , connected with you and Jim, sounded a little familiar also. So , I went back to Jim's book and reread it. He actually gives TWO ways to keep the oil up next to the pump. The way he suggests that you've done so well at, is what I wanted, but having no welder, I went with making and pop riveting in larger divider plates on the bottom of the dipper tray, where oil can seep around these plates, but slowly. As my dipper tray (blue picture ) shows, I drilled large oil drain holes in the bottoms where the rod dippers (now removed) passed thru. I think that both ways will work well and I don't need to buy a welder. Jim's book shows a picture of this second mod to dipper tray. Of course , this is only done when dippers removed for full pressure oiling. Are you running a full flow oil filter and do you have a picture of plumbing ? BTW. .. I have a Stipe pump in my other B and it is a jewel of work, like all of Bills equipment. PRICEY tho, eh ! The pump shown above with my B pan, is a $25 V8 flathead equip purchase, with a $100. bunch of mods and puts out all the oil pressure that anyone could reasonably use (45 to 55). Machinist are like metal gods and create wonders !! Last edited by hardtimes; 12-08-2014 at 11:49 PM. Reason: ..........

12-09-2014, 01:55 AM	#23
colin1928 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Australa Melbourne Posts: 878	Re: Drill or not to drill sump oil tray Hi Dick that's is really nice work very simular to how used to do them my latest is the triangle design copied from Ed Winfield seams to well also

12-09-2014, 11:31 AM	#24
bettlesr Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Florham Park, NJ Posts: 396	Re: Drill or not to drill sump oil tray Hardtimes: Sorry, I don't have a picture of the plumbing as Ora (Schwalm's) closed up the valve chamber when he sent the engine back to me. colin1928: I looked at a couple of designs and this seemed to be the best for me. Tricky part was figuring out how high to make them so the oil would not just go over the baffles and still not hit the crankshaft. I used a bore scope before finish welding and had a minimum of 1/4 between the closest parts. I scaled the locations of the front and rear baffles from Jim's book. __________________ 1965 Lotus Elan S2 1930 Model A Sport Coupe

12-09-2014, 12:19 PM	#25
Jeff/Illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,789	Re: Drill or not to drill sump oil tray Don't you wish that Henry Ford, Loren Sorinsen, and Mr. Martin were here on FB answering questions that we post? It would be interesting, to talk to the guys who were involved in manufacturing and engineering these cars and what their take would be on us messing with what they created

12-27-2014, 08:05 AM	#26
norway Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: norway Posts: 40	Re: Drill or not to drill sump oil tray Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) now i have worked so far that i can mount on my oil pan to my 1929 a ford engine. but my oil baffle has 4 drilled holes (posted a picture here in this thread on side 1) and i said, i would weld it. but should i weld it or not? now in I'm a little unsure. thanks for the reply __________________ i'm stuck in norway

12-27-2014, 08:23 AM	#28
norway Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: norway Posts: 40	Re: Drill or not to drill sump oil tray thanks for the reply james rogers. i will use it as it is. __________________ i'm stuck in norway

12-27-2014, 05:50 PM	#29
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Drill or not to drill sump oil tray OK, Thanks guys. I now have a plan on what I am going to do but first, I have an A engine with a Stipe oil pump for which I have made a pressure relief valve set at 25 psi pressure. It feeds the middle main bearing. All other lubrication is as per original so it still has the dipper tray and I experience no drop in pressure on corners in that car. It works well (about 25,000 miles and no appreciable wear in the inserted mains or rods) As for the B engine where I do lose pressure on RH corners, it runs a standard oil pump but all I have to monitor the oil pressure is a warning light which trips at 9 psi. It stays on for an uncomfortably long time after a RH turn. The crank has been drilled so it is a full pressure system with inserts in mains and big ends. How much pressure would the pump be delivering? If the B pump is the same as the A pump, how is it that I am getting over 9 psi normally? I think my course of action is going to be put baffles in the sump as described above and an oil gauge rather than a light as a start and if needs be, a Stipe pump later. I have to take that engine apart anyway. Even with a downdraft carb and 5.5:1 head, it is gutless. I don't know what the reconditioner did with the cam so I will degree it and go from there. Does anybody have figures on what timing Bill Stipe uses on his touring cam? Now I'm heading out to the workshop!!! __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.