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Old 07-21-2019, 10:45 AM   #41
johnneilson
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

First let me comment that I have the utmost respect for Terry and Tod for taking on this task.

So now the real discussion has started. The available market to sell these engines and/or components. The limited markets I see are three, Restored show cars, Touring cars and the Hot Rod/Racing market.

I cannot comment on the viable Restoration market, so someone else can help out here.

Touring is the largest market I see, some engineering improvements and improved materials can make a more reliable engine, both Terry and Tod have been working on these requirements. The motor has inherent design considerations that will never make it comparable to a modern engine though.

I have read about people thinking the HotRod and Racing market is viable. To some degree yes, but the Racing market is restricted by the rules of the organizations and the rule as it stands is the blocks must be original manufacture units. There are other restrictions but this is a tough one to overcome. The HotRod market is not restricted with the exception of investment. The Donovan "E" motor is a beast, aluminium (lots of it) 5 mains, larger than "B" motor, proper oiling system, ect. Depending on who you talk to, 50 units sold over how many years?

So the bottom line question;
How many units do we think can be moved along?
Honestly, if the demand was for 1000 units and the commitment was there I am sure Terry or Tod would have units available now.

BTW, Tod has one block done and running,(at least shown in a video) I know someone who has been waiting for his block going on 18-ish months.

Best, John
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:28 AM   #42
Ernie Vitucci
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Good Morning all...Many Model 'A's are running with fragile patched up engine blocks that don't have a great deal of life left in them. A question to the engine builders on the barn...How many of you would order blocks from Terry for your customers and at what price do you think you could successfully offer them to your customers? I know that I would order one...Ernie in Arizona
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:46 AM   #43
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

from just this last week, Tod posted this on the HAMB
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OHV and block 1.jpg (42.2 KB, 115 views)
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:03 PM   #44
steve hackel
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

That picture of Todd's new block & OHV head is so darn nice.....
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:25 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by steve hackel View Post
That picture of Todd's new block & OHV head is so darn nice.....
Agreed, but how many in the hobby will 'put their money where their mouth is"? A lot of 'I like it', but how many "I WILL buy it"s out there??
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:42 PM   #46
steve hackel
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Although somewhat long winded, that was my point exactly! No matter what most people say or where they are coming from, they tend to shop " dollars " rather than availability or quality , so their decision is usually related to liking the better product but liking the cheaper price even more. Retail products are not individual swap meet items for sale on a vendors table. If you can find the exact same item for less $ elseware, go right ahead and buy from that person - if you find a similar item for less, then buy that item instead - but don't complain that it's not the same quality of the more expensive one you passed on to buy the one you are holding in your hand.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:38 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Steve,

the silence is deafening

a short recent Chinese story;
a manufacturer of autoclaves recently won the contract to build a large unit for an aircraft mfg in china. in the notes for construction, "due to quality control issues, no critical components of the pressure vessel may be made from steel produced in china"
that is a statement right there.

John
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:59 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

So sad but true.... I am both at the mercy of a USA buyer and a foreign manufacturer, and neither of them are ever happy meeting in the middle
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:40 AM   #49
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Most A owners are 70+ and bitch about a qt of synthetic oil costs 6 bucks!
You think they will pay thousands for a block?
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:36 AM   #50
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

To do a proper rebuild on an original engine is a lot of money. If a person is willing to fork over that much, the additional money to have a new, high quality block seems pretty much a no brainer. There will always be some who stand by and second guess every bit of progress made, but give it a few years, we'll see. I happen to think the new block will sell well. I dont think a new block, even an aluminum one, will face the same discrimination as say fiberglass fenders do.
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:38 AM   #51
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I just had my engine rebuilt at a cost of $5,500.00. Inserted, Pressure oiling, "B" counterbalanced crank. All these are features are in Terry's parts and much better than what I have.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:15 PM   #52
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Chris,

can you elaborate on the build some?
1. repairs to make block sound, stitching, seats, sleeves etc.
2. "A" or "B" block
3. original cost of block, crank, rods, pistons etc.
4. what else, flywheel lightening? clutch change? cam, change or regrind?

Also, if "B" block, which main bearings were installed?

Thanks, John
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:06 AM   #53
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

we have 4 on order from Tod
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:03 AM   #54
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle View Post
To do a proper rebuild on an original engine is a lot of money. If a person is willing to fork over that much, the additional money to have a new, high quality block seems pretty much a no brainer. There will always be some who stand by and second guess every bit of progress made, but give it a few years, we'll see. I happen to think the new block will sell well. I dont think a new block, even an aluminum one, will face the same discrimination as say fiberglass fenders do.
Eagle, I agree 100% on your comment.
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:11 AM   #55
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I think Terry's engine is great, it might spark new interest in younger people, you might see more model A's on the road. Everything new needs to have the bugs worked out of it, how will these engines be tested, on an engine stand running constantly for days on end or in a vehicle?
thanks
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:09 AM   #56
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I have not seen a price for one of these?
That is where the rubber meets the road folks.

5-6 K might work
Much more and out of the park.
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:25 PM   #57
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by johnneilson View Post
Chris,

can you elaborate on the build some?
1. repairs to make block sound, stitching, seats, sleeves etc. No block repairs.

2. "A" or "B" block. Diamond "A" Block.

3. original cost of block, crank, rods, pistons etc. The Block was in my car along with the rods. The "B" Crank and pistons are included in the rebuild costs.

4. what else, flywheel lightening? clutch change? cam, change or regrind? A Birely cam. V8 clutch.

Also, if "B" block, which main bearings were installed? Not a :B: Block.

Thanks, John
It is an inserted engine with pressure oil, Adjustable lifters, "B" crank, Lightened flywheel & V8 clutch, Vibration dampener, Mallory distributor, Webber carburetor, topped off with a Yapp Riley Two Port Head. I have been gathering parts for years for this build.
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:16 PM   #58
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Hey Chris,

Will it be ready for the San Fernando Valley Model A Swap Meet? It would be nice to see it and hear it run.

At least you should make a YouTube video like Charlie Yapp did for the Cyclone head.

David Serrano
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:37 PM   #59
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkleydave View Post
I have not seen a price for one of these?
That is where the rubber meets the road folks.

5-6 K might work
Much more and out of the park.
Dave,

I think that is one of the main reasons why a lot of people hesitate to buy a new block. It's not necessarily the cost but buyers want to know what they are getting for the price, e.g., will it require a lot of extra machining, can my engine builder work with the new block, etc.

Making small batches of blocks makes it difficult to set a consistent price because the fabricator is trying to recover his costs on each unit or make a small profit. Also, a small foundry may not be able guarantee a volume of engines for a set price.

What about a guarantee? Do I have any recourse if the block is defective?

It's fine if you are a trained machinest and have the equipment to play with a new block. Unfortunately, I'm don't have those skills or machinery. I would have to find a machine shop to do the work and the cost would be an unknown factor.

David Serrano
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:57 PM   #60
johnneilson
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Chris,


sounds like it will be a good running motor.

the head was not included in the cost mentioned? right?

curious on the "B" crank mod to fit in "A" block, also is it cross drilled to feed the rods?

thanks, John
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