The Ford Barn

artron9 · 06-26-2019, 10:29 PM

Hoop I'm with you on this. However, I see the need for an accurate measurement because of the possibility that the balancer may be off from its original factory placement. I'm still trying to visualize the plastic cable tie method. For you Barners that use this method, try to remember the first time you heard of this. I would love to see this in action but have not seen a good video of it. I appreciate all of your efforts and will continue to try and understand this relatively"easy" procedure?

JSeery · 06-26-2019, 11:26 PM

If the whole problem is the zip-tie, use something else. The object used as a stop could be a lot of things, a heavy copper wire should work. It just requires something for the piston to stop against.

Tinker · 06-26-2019, 11:37 PM

The plastic tie was always meant as a starting point. never a precise measurement. It worked to get a decent TDC with heads on and a lot of flatheads on the road. Is driving your model A in a ditch V to pull your pan and put tin can sims in your babbit precise. Probably not but they drove it out of the ditch.

I recall a thread a while back (maybe it was mentioned previously) using a spark plug hollowed out with a heavy wire as a stop with the head on.

just more... https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...an-8ba.109756/

But understanding initial advance on a 8ba or yblock is also important.... Set initial advance with the vacuum disconnected.

Certainly heads off with a dead block is best or a dial indicator with heads off (dead block might be better). A crank pulley would not slip as it's keyed. maybe on a 8ba but does that really happen?

Remember to always hand crank it with a stop... haha

.

Brian · 06-27-2019, 01:48 AM

'Is driving your model A in a ditch V to pull your pan and put tin can sims in your babbit precise.'

Sorry Tinker, I have read and re-read this numerous times, and I can't understand what you're saying..... Please, can you elaborate?

Tinker · 06-27-2019, 01:54 AM

It's here somewhere...
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...odel+pan+ditch

A ditch is hollowed out. making the center lower. Sooo... if you park the wheels on either side it's easier to get under. Sim the babbit closer to the surface. I do understand early babbits had shim to take out, but when gone... Probably not the best option but maybe the best option at the time. point being we over think everything.

.

Hoop · 06-27-2019, 05:17 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

artron9, are you having a problem with your engine that makes you suspect "that the balancer may be off from its original factory placement."

If so, what is that problem?

Or ... if you want to know, just out of curiosity, how using a piston stop can help approximate TDC, that's different ...

The crank pulley (balancer?) is keyed to the crank and can't move unless the key is damaged or missing.

Again, tell us if you are trying to chase down a problem or not.

artron9 · 06-27-2019, 07:00 AM

Hoop I'm doing too much forum reading! The more I research the more I get confused! But I will say that it is starting to make sense. I'm not having a specific problem but I just want to be prepared for the future. HOOP, Tinker, Brian et al, thank you, all of you who responded are really great people who want to help and you are truly appreciated.! By the way, I ordered a 6volt pos grnd tach from Westach(Westberg Industries). It's beautiful! Great guy Pete! Very quick service! A real precision piece! With respect, Ron

Mike51Merc · 06-27-2019, 07:26 AM

Guys,
With all respect to your innovative TDC finding methods, unless you're trying to degree the cam, there's no reason that the stock crank pulley mark isn't close enough to TDC to set initial ignition timing. The only remaining question is whether you are on intake or exhaust stroke and that can be seen by looking at the valve through the spark plug hole.

Ol' Ron · 06-27-2019, 08:38 AM

I think it was Bruce Lancaster that came up with it. I've used it quite often and found it to be very accurate.

Willit Stop · 06-27-2019, 09:31 AM

This might be worth a try.It worked for me.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...c+water+bubble

JSeery · 06-27-2019, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I think it was Bruce Lancaster that came up with it. I've used it quite often and found it to be very accurate.

Yep

Mart · 06-27-2019, 10:57 AM

If I get a chance I'll get set up and make a video showing the positive stop, the cable tie and valve rocking principles mentioned in this thread.

Mart.

Tinker · 06-27-2019, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I think it was Bruce Lancaster that came up with it. I've used it quite often and found it to be very accurate.

The first time I heard of doing it that way was from Bruce. I've only done it a few times were the heads weren't going to be removed. I agree it works well. One we checked after sitting for a few yrs using a zip tie after dropping a rebuilt bubba crab on it. Car loved to eat transmissions... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFG-EnizZJs

Like you Ron, Bruce is a wealth of information.

.

06-26-2019, 10:29 PM	#21
artron9 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Lexington MA Posts: 133	Re: piston stop bolt confusion Hoop I'm with you on this. However, I see the need for an accurate measurement because of the possibility that the balancer may be off from its original factory placement. I'm still trying to visualize the plastic cable tie method. For you Barners that use this method, try to remember the first time you heard of this. I would love to see this in action but have not seen a good video of it. I appreciate all of your efforts and will continue to try and understand this relatively"easy" procedure?

06-26-2019, 11:26 PM	#22
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: piston stop bolt confusion If the whole problem is the zip-tie, use something else. The object used as a stop could be a lot of things, a heavy copper wire should work. It just requires something for the piston to stop against.

06-26-2019, 11:37 PM	#23
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: piston stop bolt confusion The plastic tie was always meant as a starting point. never a precise measurement. It worked to get a decent TDC with heads on and a lot of flatheads on the road. Is driving your model A in a ditch V to pull your pan and put tin can sims in your babbit precise. Probably not but they drove it out of the ditch. I recall a thread a while back (maybe it was mentioned previously) using a spark plug hollowed out with a heavy wire as a stop with the head on. just more... https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...an-8ba.109756/ But understanding initial advance on a 8ba or yblock is also important.... Set initial advance with the vacuum disconnected. Certainly heads off with a dead block is best or a dial indicator with heads off (dead block might be better). A crank pulley would not slip as it's keyed. maybe on a 8ba but does that really happen? Remember to always hand crank it with a stop... haha . Last edited by Tinker; 06-27-2019 at 02:44 AM. Reason: nomanclature and added shit and removed smiley face

06-27-2019, 01:48 AM	#24
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,834	Re: piston stop bolt confusion 'Is driving your model A in a ditch V to pull your pan and put tin can sims in your babbit precise.' Sorry Tinker, I have read and re-read this numerous times, and I can't understand what you're saying..... Please, can you elaborate? __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

06-27-2019, 01:54 AM	#25
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: piston stop bolt confusion It's here somewhere... https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...odel+pan+ditch A ditch is hollowed out. making the center lower. Sooo... if you park the wheels on either side it's easier to get under. Sim the babbit closer to the surface. I do understand early babbits had shim to take out, but when gone... Probably not the best option but maybe the best option at the time. point being we over think everything. . Last edited by Tinker; 06-27-2019 at 02:21 AM.

06-27-2019, 05:17 AM	#26
Hoop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 1,137	Re: piston stop bolt confusion Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) artron9, are you having a problem with your engine that makes you suspect "that the balancer may be off from its original factory placement." If so, what is that problem? Or ... if you want to know, just out of curiosity, how using a piston stop can help approximate TDC, that's different ... The crank pulley (balancer?) is keyed to the crank and can't move unless the key is damaged or missing. Again, tell us if you are trying to chase down a problem or not. __________________ "Remember that when it comes to intelligence, half of all of us are below average."

06-27-2019, 07:00 AM	#27
artron9 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Lexington MA Posts: 133	Re: piston stop bolt confusion Hoop I'm doing too much forum reading! The more I research the more I get confused! But I will say that it is starting to make sense. I'm not having a specific problem but I just want to be prepared for the future. HOOP, Tinker, Brian et al, thank you, all of you who responded are really great people who want to help and you are truly appreciated.! By the way, I ordered a 6volt pos grnd tach from Westach(Westberg Industries). It's beautiful! Great guy Pete! Very quick service! A real precision piece! With respect, Ron

06-27-2019, 07:26 AM	#28
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: piston stop bolt confusion Guys, With all respect to your innovative TDC finding methods, unless you're trying to degree the cam, there's no reason that the stock crank pulley mark isn't close enough to TDC to set initial ignition timing. The only remaining question is whether you are on intake or exhaust stroke and that can be seen by looking at the valve through the spark plug hole.

06-27-2019, 08:38 AM	#29
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: piston stop bolt confusion I think it was Bruce Lancaster that came up with it. I've used it quite often and found it to be very accurate.

06-27-2019, 09:31 AM	#30
Willit Stop Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Eureka Calif. Posts: 969	Re: piston stop bolt confusion This might be worth a try.It worked for me. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...c+water+bubble

06-27-2019, 10:57 AM	#32
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,750	Re: piston stop bolt confusion If I get a chance I'll get set up and make a video showing the positive stop, the cable tie and valve rocking principles mentioned in this thread. Mart.