1935-36 pickup restoration book

[ford38v8]

I think Kerby's got it nailed. Participation is the key, not rejection. Those who stand aside with hands in pockets, those who complain that things aren't the way they would like them to be, those who are full of suggestions that others should do, Those who are not dues paying Members, they have no say in how it's done. You who have quit, or who have never joined, you who have all the answers but no action, you are not part of the answer, you are the problem.

[Vic Piano]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

I think Kerby's got it nailed. Participation is the key, not rejection. Those who stand aside with hands in pockets, those who complain that things aren't the way they would like them to be, those who are full of suggestions that others should do, Those who are not dues paying Members, they have no say in how it's done. You who have quit, or who have never joined, you who have all the answers but no action, you are not part of the answer, you are the problem.

I respectfully suggest that you have lumped everyone into just two categories, which is an unrealistic and unfair representation of members, former members and non-members as a group. You have no way of knowing what any one individual member may have done to support the club, while in the club, nor or you privy to specific reasons for anyone to leave the club. All clubs and organizations (without exception) have members that do the work and members that are just along for the ride. However, when members embark on a project that has been approved by the powers that be, only to be rebuked after having expended untold hours, etc., I'd say that the problem exist within the club management, not the general membership. You are correct to suggest that people who have never been members of the EFV8 Club don't have any say in how the club conducts its business. Unfortunately, the anonymity provided by the internet promotes (for lack of a better term) spam from people with opinions and limited or no actual knowledge of the subject matter they are addressing.

I appreciate the EFV8 Club and their efforts to promote the preservation of 1932 to 1953 Ford Motor Company vehicles however, it is my humble opinion as a former member, that they've been taking themselves much too seriously for too long, with apparently no end in sight. This is a club, a hobby; it's supposed to be fun. I think they've forgotten about that somewhere along the way.

[36Bill]

Alan,

If I thought that rejoining the club would bring back the book project I would not hesitate to join, but I doubt it. If everyone was a club member would it move this book project, not likely. I really don't think that I am the problem, I just am not a club member. What the club does or doesn't do is their business. I was just looking forward to the '35-'36 book and I hope that someone will pick it up and run with it. I don't think we need blame, we need this book.

Bill

[Hoop]

"You who have quit, or who have never joined, you who have all the answers but no action, you are not part of the answer, you are the problem."


Alan, seriously and with all respect, the problem is that the Board of Directors pulled the rug out from under Lawson and Jerry. The club had pledged its support, and the guys relied on that promise and undertook the project.

How in heaven can you say I'm the problem or Vic's the problem ... or anyone else who offers an opinion is a problem? You even want to blame the poor goobers who are just standing there with their hands in their pockets.

The worst response to folks who complain about an organization's operation is "if you don't like it, run for the board yourself and fix it."

These guys asked for the job and campaigned to get it. Their job is to serve the membership now that they have it (later, they will add their term on the board to their illustrious resumes) ... "The way I see it, it's the clubs purpose to answer the unanswered questions that any member may have no matter how mundane." Kerby also said that. And, yes, he nailed it.

Believe it or not, some of the comments are from folks who have been to more than one rodeo.

[ford38v8]

To Hoop & Bill & Vic & others of similar opinion, I apologize for my tirade. I was just getting sick of reading all the attacks on the club I love. I do very much agree that the publication of a '35-'36 Ford truck book would be great to have in any enthusiat's library. And I agree that it's publication should not be predicated on whether it would be profitable to do so. As Tom has said, if a book breaks even, it's worthy of publication.

As a Director and Liason with the Author of the '38-'39 Ford Book, I fought the good fight then, and was on the winning side of several attempts to cancel that book. As it was, the book was reduced in size by about 60% of what it could have been, and was finally published after my term as Director ended. My point here is that the Club is governed by a Board of Directors, each having been elected to represent the Members. Each has a vote in any discussion, and the result of this vote shut down the project.

As it stands now, I assume that Jerry and Lawson have been reimbursed for expenses, as that is normal procedure in granting support for a project. The cancellation of the project represents a cost for the Club in that respect, and a big dissapointment for all interested parties, myself included.

Those who would volunteer to author a book of this kind are few and far between, and themselves are surprised by the amount of work that it takes, and the number of dollars spent before it even gets to the publisher. Jerry and Lawson are to be lauded for thier efforts. I for one hope that the information they've gathered can be made available in one form or another, and not lost to the ages.

[Fe26]

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Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I don't know the best way to act in this matter but I can relate this situation to our own government since most clubs are based on parliamentary procedures. They are slow to act and don't always act in a logical manner but given time things usually have a way of working out. If club members are aware of the situation, I'm sure there will be some recourse in the matter of electing new officers at some point in time that will have a more logical approach to the publication of the necessary books to further the hobby as far as the given history can take it. These things should be done in a timely manner or more of the folks that remember what was what will be lost and things will be forgotten. The way I see it, it's the clubs purpose to answer the unanswered questions that any member may have no matter how mundane. Some folks overlook the old battle weary work horses that were the old Ford commercial vehicles. Many of them served on well after the passenger cars were in the scrap heep. To turn a blind eye to them is to forget a very important page in history.

I figure it is better to join the club and get involved in this process than it is to abandon it. I'm sure the sum of the members probably feel the same way.

Kerby

Hear, Hear!

Perhaps a question could be asked of the EFV8C, how many reference books have they sold in relation to membership/ownership numbers? I.e if there are 1000 registered owners of 1938 cars, and the club has sold 1500 copies of the 1938-39 book, this would be a powerful argument to respond to the clubs withdrawal of support for this project.

I personally have recommened the EFV8 clubs books to many on the HAMB and other forums, people who aren't members of the club, but who needed advice and direction. This would in part count for extra and unexpected sales.

Likewise, refusal to support publication should not be considered until all accounting measures and interpretations have been considered. To say there are only 200 odd members who might be interested is a simplistic view. The club doesn't need to make a profit, then again nor should it make a great loss. However, that is not to say the project should be abandoned if a smaller loss (how do we quantify that?) has to be accepted.

Losses can be acceptable for the reasons:-

The club must ensure an adequate document is available to aid all owners of the marque.

The club must have a plan for the future. The more assistance that can be given in the here-and-now, will help provide for future needs.

Failure to provide for future needs will ultimately, either alienate or render redundant some owners desire to join the club.

So to the records we should go, and put our arguments to the club.

[Pamlico]

I too would buy one. I have a '35.

[Adam/Mill Valley CA]

Lawson and Jerry, if you do decide to proceed and self-publish, I would be happy to make a donation to assist the project - as a '36 owner, I think there's a real need for this book

Adam

[lonewolf]

I'm trying to restore a 36 pickup and having a hard time doing so. I'm a guy in my 30's and don't know anyone that has ever owned a 35-36 pickup. So if I need advice I have to ask questions here. When I restored my 51 vicky there was a nice book I bought that was priceless to me. I also met a couple guys in there 70's that had counless 49-51 fords and we would have breakfast or coffee on sunday mornings and they were a huge help and we became great friends.


Maybe if there was a detailed book to help in the restoration of these pickups there would be less cabs sitting on s-10 frames with tractor grilles

[Hoop]

Alan,

Thank you for your additional insights. This discussion has been very civil and hopefully has shed some light on Jerry and Lawson's situation. Obviously our very small group is in favor of the the book ... in some form or fashion, as they say.

Good works and dedication. If there are any Rotarians on the Ford Barn, they will tell you that Rotary decided some years ago to dedicate themselves to a cause. Rotary took on the task of eliminating POLIO throughout the WORLD.

They have been very successful in a battle that is being fought in some of the most undeveloped places on earth and have polio on the ropes. Most people do not know about this amazing effort.

There was never a thought about breaking even. They simply threw money at the project because it was worthwhile. Need more money? Find it.

Now, a 35/36 Ford book is definitely not a fight against polio, but maybe there's some inspiration there. For those not familiar with Rotary, they are mostly local businessmen. Many are the very best business people in the community. If anyone would have the business savvy to go thumbs down on such an absurd proposal as wiping out world polio, it would be these guys.

Nope.

The challenge for the Early Ford V8 Club is to find a way to do the important things that will insure the "future" as Fe26 put it. "Publish or perish" is a saying in academic circles. It means as a college professor, you must publish books in order to grow and assure your position and prestige in your field. The EFV8C is in a similar position.

What would happen if the club decided that they would stop publishing the V8 Times magazine? How many members keep their membership just to get the magazine? How many are not members of local clubs, do not attend any meetings of any kind, and simply enjoy the magazine?

Have any idea what is happening to the costs for publishing the "Times?"

Vic hinted earlier about foregoing hard copy publication. You can bet that at some time in the near future you will be getting your V8 Times on line. The EFV8C better be getting familiar with KINDLE(hmm, rhymes with Windle, the editor), NOOK, IPAD and other devices that are flying off the shelves right now.

For those guys with computer aversion, your goose is cooked. If the EFV8C is doing their job at all, they already are exploring plans that would include making the V8 Times available online with members paying for and being issued passwords for access.

A hint that they might be up to speed would have been an offer to Lawson and Jerry to publish their book as an online pilot project.

Probably not though.

Some things to think about for sure. It's hard to change some people.

[ford38v8]

With regard to Hoop's signature phrase, I'll take a wild guess and say that he is among the other half of us.

[Hoop]

Alan, thank you ... if you knew me better you'd change your mind.

In some cases, it's better to be a dreamer than a bean counter. I'd bet after this discussion Jerry and Lawson at least will know that they have our support.

[Clem Clement]

I was on of the writers/editors for several of Greenberg's books on toy trains. Greenbergs were a for profit company. He ran into a situation where a very knowledgable person wanted to document knowledge in an early small manufacturer. Greenberg thought this book would ber a tough seller, but for the good of train collectors and harmony between us, the book was published.
Same here: We have a large amount of material gathered and it needs to be published before it gets lost. Experts in these old cars and thinning out too quickly.
Clem

[jerry grayson]

Lawson and I have been thinking abou lots of ways to solve the problem and one we are giving some thought on is the addition of the 37 year model. There is lots of differences in this year, but we could reference the mechanical part to the clubs 37 passenger book. Even doing this would involve lots of research because not much of the sheet metal is the same. Do any of you know anyone that has any research information on the 37?

[Vic Piano]

In my opinion, expanding coverage is never a bad thing however, based on your previous experience with the EFV8 Club, before I did any additional work, I'd make sure that they will stand behind an agreement and not renege a second time. That said, I hope everything works out to everyone’s benefit as I know that you and Lawson have put a lot of time and effort into the book.

[Mike34]

Jerry - Please do not stop your valuable research and documenting. I suggest that you and Lawson stick to your guns and continue with the book exactly as intended. By the time the book is ready for final editing the composition of the board might very well be different. We can make this a campaign topic for the next election.
Secondly, we can always OCCUPY the club's site with petitions and bring this up to a vote by the membership. I feel that there will be tremendous support.
Also, from a business prospective, if the financial rumors regarding the club are true then they should view this "loss" as an opportunity.
Finally, as suggested by others (and offered by one), there are plenty of other ways to get this book published.
Keep pressing on down the road.
-Mike

[flatheadfan]

A new spin to this story is the discussion that was occurring on the Ford V8 Club's forum. It didn't have the response that was occurring here on the Fordbarn but there was some. All of sudden the entire discussion "disappeared" today (12-1). Interesting.......

[ford38v8]

flatheadfan, no, it didn't "disappear". You're only looking at today's posts, and it hasn't had a response today.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Jerry and Lawson, this is bad news to say the least. I know you two have put a lot of time, energy, and I'm sure a lot of your own money into this effort. It is just not right that the EFV8C/A has made this decision based solely on financial pay back. Maybe this poor decision could be reversed if enough of us contact the board of directors with letters or emails voicing our protest. I don't presently own a '35 or '36 Ford PU but was definitely planning to purchase a copy as soon as it became available just as I have every other EFV8 Club restoration book.
I also agree with some of the other comments regarding publishing this book in some other way by some other means.

[flatheadfan]

Alan-

Found it!