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Old 10-20-2021, 04:32 AM   #1
joda56
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Default how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

Yesterday, I worked on the rear brakes of my 29´ Phaeton and wonder about the free play of the axle. I can pull and push each brake drum about 1/4inch with the axle shaft tight in the brake drum. Is this play too much and where exactly arises that play, inside the differential? Where and how can I eliminate it? I didn`t found any shims for that at Snyders or Macs?



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Old 10-20-2021, 08:25 AM   #2
Bob Bidonde
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

The cause might be in these slides. Good luck!
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:44 AM   #3
joda56
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

THX for the quick reply Bob,
the drum don't rub on the backing plate, so it's not pic 1. But unfortunately, it's probabely pic 2. That means hard work inside the diff, doesn't it?
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

Your carrier surface and or axle shaft surface is worn giving you that endplay.
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

just scrolled through the parts of Snyders, but havn't found a part for a repair, it's probabely not the
STEEL AXLE HUB WASHER PAIR
Part # A-4244-SW

right?
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Old 10-21-2021, 02:28 PM   #6
Russell Reay
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joda56 View Post
just scrolled through the parts of Snyders, but havn't found a part for a repair, it's probabely not the
STEEL AXLE HUB WASHER PAIR
Part # A-4244-SW

right?
The shims called for in Bob B's post are Snyder's A-4235-SH
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Old 10-21-2021, 03:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

If the hubs are tight on the axle shafts, then shims ARE NOT THE FIX! The fix would be to replace the whole rear end with a better one or pull and rebuild. That is too much in and out play.
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:22 AM   #8
juke joint johnny
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

It sounds like you need the shims behind the bearings on the carrier.
Snyders number A4221-sh $1.65 each
The bad news is you need to take the axle apart to fit them .

Watch out for the rear spring if you do that best to use a spring spreader on it to remove it
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

Yeah, I've already build in a new rear spring a few days ago and did it with the traveling spring spreader from Snyders. Even with that spring spreader it was not that easy to put in the new (widowmaker) spring. After the change of the spring we worked on the brake and noticed the play in the axle (and a missing inner cap in the transmission).


Let me try to understand, please. When I look at the second pic of Bob Bionde, the wear that causes the play of the axle is reasoned of worn thrust pads. Those "thrust pads" are not parts, that I can buy, right?

And if they cause the play, is it the solution to bring the pinions in the tranny more together (which probabely delete the play) with shims between bearings and housing which eventually show no wear??? Or do I destroy the whole construction with that shifting?

Don't know, just thinking.
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

The surfaces that wear are the ends of the axle shaft gears and the carrier housings they contact with. Here is the set I pulled out of my rear end a few weeks ago, extremely worn. The carrier is supposed to have a raised area in the center - mine was worn almost flat. That is probably what you are experiencing. The correct solution is to find better original axles and carriers which is not too bad.

Adding gaskets in the housing won't really help you here because it won't move the axle. Even shims under the carrier bearing are a temporary fix because things are already worn.
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Old 10-24-2021, 05:29 AM   #11
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

@chrs1961815
Thanks for the picture, that helps a lot and is exactly what I thought and was afraid of.


Are the thrust washers at the axle shafts shows more or less wear than the carrier housing on yours? I know, it could be different at mine, but I have to have time for the spare parts, after I opened it.



New axle shafts are about $270new (each), but I found nobody, who buld the carrier new, so the only chance is to find a good old one? Not that easy in Germany What have you done with the axle and carrier? Do you have a good source for these parts?

Last edited by joda56; 10-24-2021 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 10-24-2021, 08:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

Joda, Do you have a machine shop or access to one? One option would be to weld up the carrier and re-machine it flat. This is something that requires some skill as the weld has to be good and not warp the carrier. Otherwise, as others have suggested, look around for a better rear end.

If each axle moves 1/4 inch then you may be pushing the opposite axle up against the carrier and you only have to build up 1/8 inch on each carrier.
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Old 10-24-2021, 09:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

nkaminar, thanks for the hint. In Wintertime I will open the rear end with a friend, who has much more skills in that work than me and then we will see, what to do. Welding and flattening will be one good option, I guess.



A better rear end in Germany will be about $1500....
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

Possibly get hardened steel "machine" washers to take up the slack.
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:23 AM   #15
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

I had that problem in my speedster. I solved it by machining the inside of the carrier flat and putting a brass washer between the axle and the carrier. I used a washer out of an old hydromantic transmission that I happened to have.
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

In my opinion 1/4" you can live with as no shim or washer can fix this . Three areas wear all inside the axle . The face on the axle shaft, the corresponding face in the diff carrier and the spider gears wearing into the carrier . In my experience it will be the spider gears . When the axle is under load the spider gears are pushed outwards and run in circular lands in the carrier . These lands can wear deeply as the carrier is steel and the spider gears are hardened . Maybe at some time the axle has been short on oil . As long as the carrier and pinion preload are within spec you can do no harm by driving as is . It has most likely been like that for many years . There will be slack in the driveline so avoid hard acceleration and deceleration . I have never ever heard of an axle failing due to the breaking up of a spider gear or an axle gear stripping in normal use . Your only cure is a good carrier and new or good used spider gears . These seem to be easily found in USA . I will check my "stores" to see what I have here in England . To replace the diff carrier etc etc is straightforward . Use the spring spreader and remove the left spring shackle put a floor jack under the diff and drop the axle a bit remove both hubs and unbolt the centre member from the left housing you can then pull the whole axle assembly out . Wash it all out with kerosine and put one axle in the vise and push and pull to see where the slack is . Mark the diff carrier when you take it apart also so the spiders stay on the same shaft and the spider carrier goes in the same way up in the same place etc etc thats assuming re use .

John in West Drayton London England .

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Old 10-24-2021, 07:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

John has some good comments. There is a good article in the Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook, Vol. 1 on how to rebuild the differential, page 1-87. The say the end play for both axles should be 0.015 to 0.020 inch (.4 to .5 mm).
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Old 10-25-2021, 10:07 AM   #18
joda56
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
There is a good article in the Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook, Vol. 1 on how to rebuild the differential, page 1-87. .

It is like always. I do own the Vol 2 but not Vol 1


But I guess Vol 1 will be on my Christmas wish list.
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Old 10-25-2021, 12:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: how to eliminate free play of the rear axle

From my notes I have .005 for end float clearance, and .005 for rotational play, and that was the results when I assembled one with all new original Ford parts ( new axles, new housings, new spider gears)
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