1931 Model A Battery Charge Issue

[3.6rs]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

why?
we charge in the car all the time

Very complicated matter.
You do not charge a rechargeable flashlight with the light on

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by 3.6rs

Very complicated matter.
You do not charge a rechargeable flashlight with the light on

True, but everything is turned off when recharging the Model A battery.
I can see your idea is needed if the car has a short that keeps draining the battery.

[Mitch//pa]

I don't think we charge batterys in the car with the headlights on....

I charge modern car batterys everyday in the car... most have parasitic draws

[3.6rs]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

....

I charge modern car batterys everyday in the car... most have parasitic draws

Everyone does what he wants, but it's not the way to do it.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by 3.6rs

Everyone does what he wants, but it's not the way to do it.

Why not?

[3.6rs]

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Originally Posted by Bob C

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Why not?

Alternators in modern cars (or generators in old cars) are calculated on charging a battery in a certain car. Battery chargers are for general use and they can give pulses that are not so good for ecu in your modern car. Charging a connected battery in a Ford A can do some weard things also. (many users of this forum can't even understand why you can measure 6v on some places when teh key is in the off position...)
Again too difficult to explain especially in another language. I refer to electronic stuff forums.

[DaWizard]

Originally Posted by Bob C

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Why not?

Actually Bob, there are several reasons to remove the battery from the car to charge, not least of which is the connection between the charger and the battery are not compromised by any corrosion that could be between the terminals and the post, but also while charging a lead acid battery there are vapors/sulfuric acid fumes that emit from the battery that can eventually eat the paint, primer, and metal beneath that, as well as the upholstery.

So, take the battery out, place it on a couple pieces of wood, hook up the charger and let it run over night.

BTW, NO SMOKING around a charging battery !!!

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Actually Bob, there are several reasons to remove the battery from the car to charge, not least of which is the connection between the charger and the battery are not compromised by any corrosion that could be between the terminals and the post, but also while charging a lead acid battery there are vapors/sulfuric acid fumes that emit from the battery that can eventually eat the paint, primer, and metal beneath that, as well as the upholstery.

So, take the battery out, place it on a couple pieces of wood, hook up the charger and let it run over night.

BTW, NO SMOKING around a charging battery !!!

And this isn't happening when the alternator or generator is charging it
in the car?

Bob

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Bob C

And this isn't happening when the alternator or generator is charging it
in the car?

Bob

Yes it is...

[zzlegend]

I always keep the tops of my battery's wiped down and clean to minimize dirt tracking between post. And always jump a battery with cables connected to the positive post on both battery's and the negative connected to the good battery post and ground it on the block or? in order to not spark near the fumes on the dead battery. But I never disconnect anything when I am charging with a charger. I guess at 70 years old, I have been charging my battery's all wrong after all these years. . Go figure. Now I am going to use my mig welder and cook a turkey

[DaWizard]

Originally Posted by Bob C

And this isn't happening when the alternator or generator is charging it
in the car?

Bob

Yes it is Bob, THAT is why the under side of your battery mount is all but destroyed and the battery "box" is in disrepair. It is just not as much as when you hook up a charger, and also only as your motor revs the amount of charge changes where the charger is going to try to boil a charge into the battery for as long as it is hooked up.

zzlegend, I'll be right over and share my recipe for stuffing for that bird since I believe that mig welder is the only way to cook it!

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Yes it is Bob, THAT is why the under side of your battery mount is all but destroyed and the battery "box" is in disrepair. It is just not as much as when you hook up a charger, and also only as your motor revs the amount of charge changes where the charger is going to try to boil a charge into the battery for as long as it is hooked up.

zzlegend, I'll be right over and share my recipe for stuffing for that bird since I believe that mig welder is the only way to cook it!

Farm out......................Cant wait to see that recipe. And my bird will be happy.

[Bruce Adams]

Just for kicks is there any chance you have a BATTERY SWITCH? If so, and its off, NO amount of time on the charger will help the battery.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Actually Bob, there are several reasons to remove the battery from the car to charge, not least of which is the connection between the charger and the battery are not compromised by any corrosion that could be between the terminals and the post, but also while charging a lead acid battery there are vapors/sulfuric acid fumes that emit from the battery that can eventually eat the paint, primer, and metal beneath that, as well as the upholstery.

So, take the battery out, place it on a couple pieces of wood, hook up the charger and let it run over night.

BTW, NO SMOKING around a charging battery !!!

Why put it on wood?

[SeaSlugs]

for some reason years ago the battery case used to be made out of a very dense porous material. nothing could leak out but setting it on concrete will drain a battery. Also when storing a battery dont leave them directly on concrete or they will be alot faster than using a chunk of wood as an insulator.

im not sure if thats true with modern batteries or not but how hard is it to throw a 2x4 or something under the battery?

I always clamp the charger leads right on the terminals of the battery without disconnecting everything. never had a problem. if possible i charge the battery in the car just because its easier. Now if i had a buick or air cooled VW i would remove it from the car so the interior doesnt fill up with ozone or if sparks happen it doesnt ruin the interior...

only time i remove it is when the car isnt near an outlet...

[DaWizard]

Well, since concrete never dries, and water is a great conductor, it gets around to the same theory as being able to now charge your smarter phone without plugging into the charger, just laying it on the pad allows energy to transfer from pad to battery. Even with asphalt this convection can remove some of the charge, not as much as concrete, but still draw from the battery even through the plastic of the battery insulates the bottom. Since air is a decent insulator and wood is a poor conductor, placing on the wood just helps get and keep the charge in the battery.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Well, since concrete never dries, and water is a great conductor, it gets around to the same theory as being able to now charge your smarter phone without plugging into the charger, just laying it on the pad allows energy to transfer from pad to battery. Even with asphalt this convection can remove some of the charge, not as much as concrete, but still draw from the battery even through the plastic of the battery insulates the bottom. Since air is a decent insulator and wood is a poor conductor, placing on the wood just helps get and keep the charge in the battery.

yea, anything placed directly on concrete and the temp fluctuates in the night (like fall and spring) you lift it up in the morning and its soaking wet underneath.

[Mitch//pa]

Correct slug the old school battery cases were a cause for concern when storing etc.. as far as modern batterys putting them on wood to prevent discharging is a MYTH.

[ian Simpson]

We store the farm batteries on wood in the shop as the concrete floor can get way below freezing which does not do an idle battery any good at all.

But back to the original discussion: deep discharge of a lead acid battery results in the formation of a sulphide (or is it sulphate?) coating on the plates. My memory is dim as it is fifty plus years since I looked after banks of lead acid cells used as uninterruptable power supplies in telephone exchanges and railway signalling. I seem to remember that we used an 'over the top' charging current to blow the crap off the plates. The downside being that the crap would sink to the bottom of the cells eventually shorting out the plates. By the way, this is why overly high charging caused by mis-adjusting the third brush on a Model A generator is a bad thing.

Hope this makes sense and my memory is not too befuddled by so many years of home made wine.

[tbirdtbird]

Mitch, when i warned my nephew that there was a 'be sure to put the battery on wood and never on concrete else the electricity will leak out' cult out there, he was incredulous. I alerted him just before he went off to restoration college in KS. I did not want him to laugh right in a customer's face.
Of course eventually he did encounter such a person and he couldn't help it, he died laughing.

as far as removing batteries from cars to charge them, next we will be told to remove a gas tank from a car before we fill up, and remove the radiator before we fill it

guess we have been doing things wrong for so many years.

It will take a thorough education in physics and electrical theory, and not heresay, myth, and rumor to counteract these misconceptions.

However, in the end, it is your car, so charge it anyway you wish