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10-29-2012, 09:04 PM | #1 |
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Engine cutting out
Got a stumper. I drove the Cabbie yesterday to the station to get some gas because it was about empty. I showered down in first and shifted to second. With the throttle floored in second the engine cut out like it was out of gas so, I just let up thinking it was about to run out of gas. Shifted into third and babied it to the pumps about a mile from the road to my house. After putting in about 2 gallons (10$) I thought, why not see if it was the low gas, so I kicked it in second and after a second or two it acted like it ran out of gas. Right about then when I thought it might be the gas cap not venting, I noticed the cap laying on the top of the tank. Top down so, I just stood up and reached over the windshield and replaced it. When I let up it goes on, no problem.
So I bring it home and disconnect the fuel line and let it run into a container to see if the tank was stopped up. No dice, I ran almost a quart and it was like a cow on a flat rock. I checked the sediment bowl and screen, clean as a pin. Dropped the carb bottom and it was clean also. I just don't know why it runs out of gas like that. I just had this carb rebuilt by Jim Adams about 6 months ago and it runs great except for this problem. The only thing I haven't checked is the float height but it runs great and does not stall at stops.
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10-29-2012, 09:18 PM | #2 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Gas or Electrical problem,I'd say electrical if it cuts out! Check wire in distr. or behind the panel! Vibration!
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10-29-2012, 11:00 PM | #3 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
I had a similar problem with some old gas that had begun to turn into whatever "gas" turns into nowadays. Was the little amount of gas in your tank before adding the 2 gallons old? I replaced coil, condenser, carb, and ignition switch before I discovered the gas problem.
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10-30-2012, 01:07 AM | #4 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
One clue you gave me in your post, you say you "floored it" in second gear. Sometimes when a sudden, high vacuum like that is brought forth a high amount of fuel from the carb jets, a very small piece of rust or foreign matter that was floating around in the carb passageway just under the secondary jet, can sometimes be forced up into the jet and now lodged there. You may not see it just by a minor dis- assembly.
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10-30-2012, 09:32 AM | #5 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Jim,
Is the problem essentially created when you floor the gas pedal? Is it ONLY in 2nd gear, or just worst in 2nd gear? Is there backfiring? It's sounding to me like an electrical breakdown under load--when the pedal is floored at relatively low rpms, the engine is able to breathe deeply, raising the pressure in the combustion chambers, making it harder for the spark to jump the plug gap, making it more likely for high voltage spark to find an alternative path to ground. This should be worst in 3rd gear. If this is what's going on, there are many possible culprits providing either too-weak spark or too-easy alternative paths-to-ground. Steve |
10-30-2012, 10:05 AM | #6 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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If so, maybe the proud screw heads of the box are shorting to the firewall when being pulled by the cable from the massive torque of the mill? Hey, you asked. |
10-30-2012, 10:53 AM | #7 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Zenith floats sometimes scrape slightly in an assembled carb, preventing full drop and complete opening of the valve. Without opening the carb (which would change the situation) remove the drain plug and see if you get the same full-flow stream you had when you disconnected the line.
I've also encountered some new float valves that tinkled worse than a bad prostate. |
10-30-2012, 02:07 PM | #8 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
James,
With my stock cap, sometimes spark going to # 4 would jump through the cap to #3 plug connector strap & POW! I found it in the dark. Bill W.
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10-30-2012, 02:24 PM | #9 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-30-2012, 02:34 PM | #10 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Quote:
Steve |
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10-30-2012, 03:19 PM | #11 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Tom,
For a temporary "fix" I made a high arched plug strap with a skinny strand of closeline wire & ran it for a month. Wonder if liquid tape would insulate a "leaking" cap??? Chief always carried wire in his A Models. When I opened my shop, he brought me 1/2 a roll of wire that he "rescued" from a hay baler he was rebuilding. Bill W.
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10-30-2012, 03:28 PM | #12 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-30-2012, 03:29 PM | #13 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Original junction box with original screws and a armored cable with a repo switch. I build some good motors but that is a stretch.
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10-30-2012, 03:31 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-30-2012, 03:33 PM | #15 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Bill, it doesn't misfire, it just quits like it runs out of gas. I let up and let the carb catch up and it runs great. Just don't hold it to the floor. I don't like to have to run with a light throttle.
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10-30-2012, 03:49 PM | #16 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Quote:
On Minerva, someone set the gas line too deep at the carb & the line touched the screen, worse still, it was touching the 1/4" wide solder joint down the side of the carb screen. Another time I had a little BLACK BEETLE stuck in the top of my float valve. Maybe it was a dreaded "CORN BEETLE!" that poops the goo that plugs our jets! (WHY ME??????) Bill W.
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10-31-2012, 06:14 AM | #17 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
James I think it is fuel try opening the gav more counterclock wise to richin it up see if this helps, also try and pull the choke just when it falls on its face see if this helps. and like Mike said see if there blockage in the main jet
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10-31-2012, 07:34 AM | #18 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-31-2012, 07:49 AM | #19 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
A couple of things to check:
1. Sometimes the plug on the bottom of carb for the main jet will have an indentation inside the plug where a small piece of Gasoline saturated cork or rust will be "floating" around on the bottom the plug. Under high flow conditions (WOT) the gas flow will suck the cork up and block the main jet temporarily. Then at idle or lower speeds the cork drops back down and all is fine until the next WOT. The same thing can happen inside the port for the cap jet/ secondary well also. Either one will limit gas flow. 2. Remember the flat thin piece of solder that forms when you flick some hot solder off of your solder iron onto the floor? If the gas tank has been soldered in the past I have seen a flat thin piece of solder "floating" around in the bottom of the gas tank. Occasionally the solder piece will cover the outlet, stopping or limiting gas flow to the carb. NOTE if the shutoff valve has a "finger" filter installed then this will not be a problem. |
10-31-2012, 07:57 AM | #20 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
If I'm not mistaking when you floor a car and open up the carb the vacuum drops that's why when going high speeds our vacuum whipers slow down if you already have a slight vacuum leek in eaither the carb to Maifold or manifold to block when you floor it open you will loose vacuum and run to lean for and start feeling like your out of gas. Same sinaro happened to me about two yeas ago had a crack in my manifold ran ok (yet on the leen side) till I tryed to goose it. Then bla bla bla bog bog uhg thppp.
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10-31-2012, 09:38 AM | #21 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
THis is a really interesting case. The 2nd gear-only effect and no backfiring are real puzzlers. I guess the absence of backfiring supports the fuel starvation theory--no raw fuel to be passed on to the exhaust. But it would have to be nearly complete shutoff, not just leaning out. So, I'm thinking something like MassAMan or Benson suggest must be going on--but why only in 2nd gear; if it's a WOT effect sucking lots of gas, there's never a higher flow rate than wide open throttle in 1st gear. Must be some really subtle intermittant blockage that requires a high but not-too-high flow rate, I guess.
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10-31-2012, 09:53 AM | #22 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Quote:
The tank has a pinhole in it but, it has been there for years and no other fixes have done. The inside of the tank is clean as a pin and there is no rust dust in the sediment bowl or the carb bowl so there is none in the tank. Opening the valve, the fuel drains into a glass jar clean and doesn't slow down in a half quart. I don't think I would use a half quart in a mile or two even at full throttle no matter what gear.
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10-31-2012, 09:57 AM | #23 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-31-2012, 10:02 AM | #24 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-31-2012, 02:16 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-31-2012, 03:53 PM | #26 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-31-2012, 04:26 PM | #27 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
I don't baby my car BUT, I build the motors so, I figure I will find out what the limits are and where I make mistakes by running the krap out of it. So far 10,000 miles and this is the only problem. I do remember that the last time I drove it, it topped out at about 55 in third. I am just going to have to do some experimenting to see what is the deal.
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10-31-2012, 04:42 PM | #28 | |
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Re: Engine cutting out
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10-31-2012, 04:49 PM | #29 | |
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10-31-2012, 04:59 PM | #30 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
It could be heat related, WOT cold or hot? James does it make any difference?
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10-31-2012, 07:20 PM | #31 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
No, I just removed the line and tested it because I wanted to make sure the tank and line was clear. I'll try that tomorrow and see how the valve and carb runs.
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10-31-2012, 07:22 PM | #32 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
Temp doesn't matter, it does it cold or hot. It is going to be warmer tomorrow and maybe I can work on it a little.
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11-01-2012, 10:47 AM | #33 |
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Re: Engine cutting out
James,
There was talk awhile back about some of assembled types of float valves that didn't flow enough fuel?? Have you tried an original type, SIMPLE, needle & seat float valve? Bill W.
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