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Old 12-16-2014, 08:20 PM   #1
frederic
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Default Starting with 12v running with 6v

any one have a diagram/schematic of system using two optima 6v batteries in a 6v system. Starting done with the two 6v batteries ( how ever they are hooked up) and running with the one 6v battery. the system I saw, for a brief time only, used original start push button and seemed to use only ONE solenoid. It looked cool but did not see how it was wired.

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Old 12-16-2014, 09:16 PM   #2
Gary Tosel
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

I have two 6 volt batteries in my 36 Ford 5W Coupe that does what you are describing. It starts on 12 volts to the starter only and all other circuits are 6 volts.

This allows charging the batteries in parallel at 6 volts and that was the only change. There is a way to use two 6 volt solenoids to do the same thing as the use of a Orpin switch. I bought the switch a long time ago at J.C. Whitney, but it probably is available on line. It also includes wiring diagrams for use with Ford 6 volt systems that use a ground type starter button.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:48 PM   #3
JSeery
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

This was something that we did on VWs in the 70s and 80s. It uses a solenoid like Gary is referring to.
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:09 PM   #4
frederic
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

Gary thanks I will look it up and do some research

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Old 12-16-2014, 10:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

http://www.texasindustrialelectric.c...1119844_6V.asp
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

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Old 12-16-2014, 10:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

They have a wiring diagram!

I don't remember what the VW series-parallel solenoids cost, but I'm sure they weren't too expensive. But no idea if they are still available.

Last edited by JSeery; 12-16-2014 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 12-17-2014, 01:56 PM   #8
rotorwrench
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

The key is that the 12-volt capability is isolated from the 6-volt system. Since a lot of old Fords original source for 6-volt power was at the battery side of the start relay, isolation would require that to be relocated to a 6-volt source with the starter relay being the only one connected to the 12-volt source. It would still have to be positive ground and the 6-volt system power connection would have to be made at the primary battery source. The secondary battery would be connected in series with the primary and the negative terminal of the secondary would only connect to the starter relay. The starter relay would be better off if it were rated for 12-volts but a stock relay would still work for a while at least.

I have a battery cart that uses two 12-volt batteries to make either 12-volt or 24-volt (both batteries in series) connections. It needs no relays to do that but does need to be connected correctly for both to work properly. The 12-volt side is just connected to the one battery. It requires batteries with a bolted type post in order to make two connections at a single post easily.
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

Here is an idea I was exploring a couple of years ago.
It might work for you.
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

I'm interested in why you feel the need?
Is there an issue that your trying to resolve?
Martin.
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmbrucew View Post
Here is an idea I was exploring a couple of years ago.
It might work for you.
Bruce
This is basically a 12V system with a 6v tap off for some systems. It requires a 12V alt/gen doesn't it?

Think we were talking about a 6V system that only applied 12V to the starter, anyway that was the type of system we used on the VWs. The idea was (on the VW) to up the starting voltage but run on the normal system. The 12V was used for starting only.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooder View Post
I'm interested in why you feel the need?
Is there an issue that your trying to resolve?
Martin.
I am 100% behind Martin on this question. Sounds like you are trying to fix it until it is broke. What are you trying to accomplish (do you have a problem you are trying to solve?)? I bet you are trying to fix a problem that could be fixed by cleaning all of the grounds and maybe rebuilding the starter motor. I would just leave it 6 volts or convert to 12 volts. If you do what you are describing (and I don't recommend it) and have bulb headlights instead of sealed beams be sure to run the headlights on 12 volts and use the "Brite" bulbs from Ron Francis, wire-works.com, (800) 292-1940. By the way, what year is your car?

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Old 12-17-2014, 06:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

The system I proposed used 12 volts for starting and lights, running on 6 volts.
Yes 12 volt alternator neg ground.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

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Originally Posted by cmbrucew View Post
The system I proposed used 12 volts for starting and lights, running on 6 volts.
Yes 12 volt alternator neg ground.
Bruce
To me not a bad idea at all, just different than the 12v start only. I think 12v charging and lights is a good solution. When I was younger a lot of folks ran 12v batteries with a center tap to achieve the same thing. Seem to work like a charm, but I never ran one with that setup myself.
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

Go 12 volt or 6 volt. Nothing wrong with 6 volt if everything is as it should be. I have 12 volt because of some modern stuff. Seem the buzz word is 8 volt or 12 volt is needed to solve problems. I think the reason is because the they not understand problems they are having. Solve your problem not bandaid it.
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

I've read opinions saying that the battery bank will have short life because all of the discharge is coming from one battery and the alternator is overcharging the secondary battery trying to keep the primary battery charged. I don't have any experience with a system like this, but I support the "either-or" approach. It seems a lot less complicated to use one voltage throughout the car.
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

I also agree straight six volt would be the best, but the OP asked and I tried to help.
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:29 PM   #18
frederic
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

All items on the car are stock 6 volt items. It just gives the starter a 12 volt kick. The "Orpin" switch (solenoid) does the job. Just finding one that does not cost an arm and a leg !!! Jseery mentioned something about VW's but I dont know what they used this for.
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

Quote:
Originally Posted by frederic View Post
All items on the car are stock 6 volt items. It just gives the starter a 12 volt kick. The "Orpin" switch (solenoid) does the job. Just finding one that does not cost an arm and a leg !!! Jseery mentioned something about VW's but I dont know what they used this for.
These were not a stock item, but an aftermarket part. I have used them and there was never a battery problem that I am aware of. Not sure where you would get one now, but were popular (at least with VWs) at one time.
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: Starting with 12v running with 6v

There is an installation manual for sell on ebay now. Not sure what good it would do without the solenoid! The manual is 29 pages and covers about every car there was at the time.
Another listing for a switch: auction is for a BROCKWAY TRUCK NEW OLD STOCK GENUINE DELCO REMY SERIES PARALLEL SOLENOID STARTER SWITCH. This allows you to use 2 batteries for starting, then automatically switches back to 1 battery for running. This came from the Brockway factory in Cortland NEW YORK when they closed in 1977 . Not sure how many years and models this fits . Approx. 4 " tall , 3 1/4 " diameter . Possibly fits other tractor trailers of the time . this is a VINTAGE new part, not a reproduction.
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