The Ford Barn

D. Jones · 12-13-2013, 01:18 PM

Guess I should have known that I couldn't just replace the king pins and bushings on my 1945 1/2 ton to fix my quite minor steering problem. I found the axle is bent AND twisted plus the king pin hole on the passenger side of the axle is .006 oversize.

Called a Blacksmith friend and we're going to straighten the darned thing and then I'll have to set it up in the mill and bore the king pin hole to .875" and bush it back to .811".

I keep reminding myself that I must enjoy this or why would I do it. Oh, now I remember, when my mother-in-law gave me the truck I said I'd restore it, and by heavens I will.

Sorry guys, I just had to get that off my chest.

V8COOPMAN · 12-13-2013, 01:36 PM

BEFORE you go boring that hole and re-bushing it (which can easily weaken the axle end), and since yours' is ONLY .006" oversize, take a peek at the link below which shows a very sound approach to easily repairing such by a guy that has years worth of experience working-on, repairing and modifying these axles. Make sure you read down to POST #3. DD

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=677274

Pete · 12-13-2013, 01:55 PM

"http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=677274 "

Mickey Mouse.

V8COOPMAN · 12-13-2013, 02:00 PM

What's "MM" about it? DD

Pete · 12-13-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

What's "MM" about it? DD

The fact that the finished hole has not been honed to size. There is no way you can get 100% bearing surface in a hole with a die grinder.

Oh, and as a side note there are no racing associations that will allow
reformed axles.

V8COOPMAN · 12-13-2013, 02:19 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Fair-enough explanation of your technical point! DD

TJ · 12-13-2013, 02:31 PM

Get another axle. They are not that rare

NealinCA · 12-13-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ

Get another axle. They are not that rare

I agree on a 42-47 1/2-ton pickup axle, just find a good one. I have done as the link shows to fix a 32 axle. I used the correct size reamer and had good results. The king pin is locked in place in the axle, so as long as it is tight, I don't see the need for a honed surface as you would need in the bushings themselves. I have also been known to run an old Mor-Drop axle, so I guess I am living on the edge with reformed axles...

Neal

JWL · 12-13-2013, 02:58 PM

Yes, totally MM. Not just the sizing and bore roundness but also the measuring concept. At best it should be considered a "get by" fix.

Ross F-1 · 12-13-2013, 03:15 PM

For all the later trucks, kingpins are available in .010" O/S to correct this exact situation.

ford38v8 · 12-13-2013, 04:16 PM

The guy got himself banned from the HAMB. How do you do that? I thought that forum was like a cage fight!

Ross F-1 · 12-13-2013, 04:20 PM

I don't know what's going on over there, but a bunch of long-time members have been banned in the last couple months.

D. Jones · 12-13-2013, 04:30 PM

First, thanks for the input.

While there are quite a few 42-47 trucks, available front axles for them of any kind much less good ones are quite scarce in this neck of the woods. I have a good axle from a 56 F-100, but it's three inches too wide.
As for the shrinking the hole by heating and hammering and then reaming, not a bad idea, but it would be much harder to maintain the proper caster and camber angles than if I just bore and sleeve it. If a .064" diameter larger hole will significantly weaken the axle I would be very surprised. I believe getting the axle straight will be the hardest part and if we don't succeed we certainly can't make it any worse than it already is.

Ross F-1 · 12-13-2013, 05:20 PM

If it's only .006" over size now, why not just buy the .010" OS pins and bushings?

deuce_roadster · 12-13-2013, 05:55 PM

Bend the axle back to straight COLD in a press. DO NOT HEAT it . I have straightened many axles and it doesn't take that much pressure to move the metal. Around 7 tons. If the axle has been heated, it takes about 3 tons. At least that is what the gauge on my press registered.
The hardest things I have pressed were 32 perch bolts, when tight, required 17 tons before they popped. I put a hardened nut on flush with the threads and press on that.

Firepower flyer · 12-13-2013, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Jones

First, thanks for the input.

While there are quite a few 42-47 trucks, available front axles for them of any kind much less good ones are quite scarce in this neck of the woods. I have a good axle from a 56 F-100, but it's three inches too wide.
As for the shrinking the hole by heating and hammering and then reaming, not a bad idea, but it would be much harder to maintain the proper caster and camber angles than if I just bore and sleeve it. If a .064" diameter larger hole will significantly weaken the axle I would be very surprised. I believe getting the axle straight will be the hardest part and if we don't succeed we certainly can't make it any worse than it already is.

I'm guessing if it's bent and twisted like you mentioned in your first post that it may have caster/camber issues anyway, that should be checked. I think the way the axle was repaired in the link is a ok fix, if you can't find another good axle, but there's plenty around.
On a side note 296V8 who did the tech link on fixing the axle was the one that got banned. It's to bad,he always had good tech tips and was helpful, he has a website for doing drop axles. I had him drop two of them for me and turned out great. Good luck with it.
Joe

Fe26 · 12-13-2013, 11:32 PM

Ideally the axel would be straighted cold, but this axel is also twisted. The Blacksmith will know what to do and for a twist it probably involves heat and a slow cool in still air, not laying on a concrete floor and not in a draught.

ford38v8 · 12-13-2013, 11:42 PM

If you have a KRW Catalogue, I believe they had a tool for cold adjustment of caster/camber.

117harv · 12-13-2013, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

The fact that the finished hole has not been honed to size. There is no way you can get 100% bearing surface in a hole with a die grinder.

Oh, and as a side note there are no racing associations that will allow
reformed axles.

Bearing? The king pin is held tight in the bore with the lock pin.

49r · 12-13-2013, 11:57 PM

30 years ago after breaking a king pin on my F1 because the axel hole was flogged out (I kept belting the cotter pin to try and take up the play ...ouch), I had both holes bored and sleeved. I don't remember the specs, but there have been no issues since.

12-13-2013, 01:18 PM	#1
D. Jones Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 514	Bent axle rant Guess I should have known that I couldn't just replace the king pins and bushings on my 1945 1/2 ton to fix my quite minor steering problem. I found the axle is bent AND twisted plus the king pin hole on the passenger side of the axle is .006 oversize. Called a Blacksmith friend and we're going to straighten the darned thing and then I'll have to set it up in the mill and bore the king pin hole to .875" and bush it back to .811". I keep reminding myself that I must enjoy this or why would I do it. Oh, now I remember, when my mother-in-law gave me the truck I said I'd restore it, and by heavens I will. Sorry guys, I just had to get that off my chest.

12-13-2013, 01:36 PM	#2
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,111	Re: Bent axle rant BEFORE you go boring that hole and re-bushing it (which can easily weaken the axle end), and since yours' is ONLY .006" oversize, take a peek at the link below which shows a very sound approach to easily repairing such by a guy that has years worth of experience working-on, repairing and modifying these axles. Make sure you read down to POST #3. DD http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=677274 __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE* Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 12-13-2013 at 01:41 PM.

12-13-2013, 02:00 PM	#4
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,111	Re: Bent axle rant What's "MM" about it? DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

12-13-2013, 02:19 PM	#6
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,111	Re: Bent axle rant Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Fair-enough explanation of your technical point! DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

12-13-2013, 02:31 PM	#7
TJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napa,California Posts: 6,035	Re: Bent axle rant Get another axle. They are not that rare

12-13-2013, 01:55 PM	#3
Pete Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,408	Re: Bent axle rant "http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=677274 " Mickey Mouse.

12-13-2013, 02:58 PM	#9
JWL Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia Posts: 2,204	Re: Bent axle rant Yes, totally MM. Not just the sizing and bore roundness but also the measuring concept. At best it should be considered a "get by" fix.

12-13-2013, 03:15 PM	#10
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: Bent axle rant For all the later trucks, kingpins are available in .010" O/S to correct this exact situation. __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

12-13-2013, 04:16 PM	#11
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,644	Re: Bent axle rant The guy got himself banned from the HAMB. How do you do that? I thought that forum was like a cage fight! __________________ Alan

12-13-2013, 04:20 PM	#12
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: Bent axle rant I don't know what's going on over there, but a bunch of long-time members have been banned in the last couple months. __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

12-13-2013, 04:30 PM	#13
D. Jones Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 514	Re: Bent axle rant First, thanks for the input. While there are quite a few 42-47 trucks, available front axles for them of any kind much less good ones are quite scarce in this neck of the woods. I have a good axle from a 56 F-100, but it's three inches too wide. As for the shrinking the hole by heating and hammering and then reaming, not a bad idea, but it would be much harder to maintain the proper caster and camber angles than if I just bore and sleeve it. If a .064" diameter larger hole will significantly weaken the axle I would be very surprised. I believe getting the axle straight will be the hardest part and if we don't succeed we certainly can't make it any worse than it already is.

12-13-2013, 05:20 PM	#14
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: Bent axle rant If it's only .006" over size now, why not just buy the .010" OS pins and bushings? __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

12-13-2013, 05:55 PM	#15
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: Bent axle rant Bend the axle back to straight COLD in a press. DO NOT HEAT it . I have straightened many axles and it doesn't take that much pressure to move the metal. Around 7 tons. If the axle has been heated, it takes about 3 tons. At least that is what the gauge on my press registered. The hardest things I have pressed were 32 perch bolts, when tight, required 17 tons before they popped. I put a hardened nut on flush with the threads and press on that.

12-13-2013, 11:32 PM	#17
Fe26 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 949	Re: Bent axle rant Ideally the axel would be straighted cold, but this axel is also twisted. The Blacksmith will know what to do and for a twist it probably involves heat and a slow cool in still air, not laying on a concrete floor and not in a draught.

12-13-2013, 11:42 PM	#18
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,644	Re: Bent axle rant If you have a KRW Catalogue, I believe they had a tool for cold adjustment of caster/camber. __________________ Alan

12-13-2013, 11:57 PM	#20
49r Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wellington New Zealand Posts: 308	Re: Bent axle rant 30 years ago after breaking a king pin on my F1 because the axel hole was flogged out (I kept belting the cotter pin to try and take up the play ...ouch), I had both holes bored and sleeved. I don't remember the specs, but there have been no issues since.