The Ford Barn

newshirt · 01-22-2017, 03:18 PM

How much play should each roller in the rear wheel roller bearing have?

I didn't measure, but it looks 1/16" of an inch.

I can grab rollers and move them around quite a bit. Two rollers can be pulled together so their outer surfaces touch. Every roller rattles when I shake the whole bearing, like a little tambourine.

Is 1/16" of an inch really bad?

larrys40 · 01-22-2017, 03:55 PM

Ray,
It is normal for them to be like that. if you fit the bearing itself on the axle housing you will find more of the fit. The things to look for in the bearing and races is any pitting or looseness of the cage on the bearing.

on the axle housing surface look at the bottom surface where the load is and there should not be any galling or roughness or grooves on the axle housing bottom.

Hub: inside the hub should be free from pits and galling as well. If so you there is a fix for that. Before I would invest in the fix I would look at the hub key way and surface to make sure there's no damage and additionally I would not invest any more in a hub that has hub studs welded. The fix is it can be sleeved with a kit from Snyders or Brattons that uses a sleeve installed in the hub ( following directions of course) and it now uses a V8 68-bearing that is the smaller profile. It will then work as normal onto the axle housing. I have a KR Wilson hub bore gauge they had available in the day to check for bore wear but usually the checks I gave you will be sufficient.

that's the long and short of it!
Larry Shepard

Mitch//pa · 01-22-2017, 04:04 PM

What Larry said:::

Beware of the repop rear bearings as there is a lot of defective junk floating around... people have lost their wheels and damaged internal components

newshirt · 01-22-2017, 04:40 PM

The bottom of the axle housing is bright and shiny. The diameter is 2.070 at all points around the housing.

There are some lines on the top of the axle housing, but they are not grooves. I cannot scratch them with my fingernail.

There is a small gouge at the 5 o'clock position of the axle housing, near the outside. I believe that occurred recently when the axle broke and wheel fell off.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-22-2017, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newshirt

The bottom of the axle housing is bright and shiny. The diameter is 2.070 at all points around the housing.

There are some lines on the top of the axle housing, but they are not grooves. I cannot scratch them with my fingernail.

There is a small gouge at the 5 o'clock position of the axle housing, near the outside. I believe that occurred recently when the axle broke and wheel fell off.

From the looks of the damaged bearing surface, I'd be replacing that axle tube with a good used one. Be sure to check the differential for correct fit when doing this. There should be just enough pressure to have a very slight drag.

Dave in MD · 01-22-2017, 04:47 PM

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Amen to what Mitch said. Two of our club members had the repops just about to the failure stage. You can easily spot the repop bearings as they have 12 rollers as opposed to 14 on the original correct type. Also the cages on the ends of the rollers are held in place by all 14 roller pins. The repops have six pins holding the end cages (one between every two rollers). On both cars the pins and cages had cut a significant groove on the inside of the hub. One car had about 7,000 miles while the other had over 8,000 miles.
If one of the rear bearings locks up while driving it could be very dangerous.
I'd recommend everyone check the rear wheel bearings in their car.

Mitch//pa · 01-22-2017, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in MD

Amen to what Mitch said. Two of our club members had the repops just about to the failure stage. You can easily spot the repop bearings as they have 12 rollers as opposed to 14 on the original correct type. Also the cages on the ends of the rollers are held in place by all 14 roller pins. The repops have six pins holding the end cages (one between every two rollers). On both cars the pins and cages had cut a significant groove on the inside of the hub. One car had about 7,000 miles while the other had over 8,000 miles.
If one of the rear bearings locks up while driving it could be very dangerous.
I'd recommend everyone check the rear wheel bearings in their car.

Dave thats great indentifying information... i have not dealt with the repops for the reason of failure so i did not know that... didnt some repops not have the spiral cut into each roller?

Y-Blockhead · 01-22-2017, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in MD

You can easily spot the repop bearings as they have 12 rollers as opposed to 14 on the original correct type.

If you look at every vendors catalog, the picture clearly shows only 12 rollers. So I guess they are all NFG.

Where would a good place be to find the proper bearings or are we SOL.

Smooth_One · 01-22-2017, 06:29 PM

My bearings are old ones and I'll be running those because they're in great shape with almost no pitting.

larrys40 · 01-22-2017, 06:36 PM

I agree with Tom said that for a long term fix I would probably plan on replacing that housing or getting it sleeved. Remember if you "replace it.... your carrier bearing preload will most likely change. A rear axle rebuild or removal to check out and fix properly is probably in the future.. if not present!

The original "A" bearings had a spiral on the rollers. The later Ford and replacement bearings do not. As Mitch, I've not dealt with the repros as I always have a supply of original parts on hand.. which is preferred. They are also probably cheaper than the inferior aftermarkets.

search ebay or dropping one of us a PM will give you a bearing or two if you need them.

Also.. as for a regular maintenance item it's a good idea to pull the hubs every couple of years and hand pack them with your preferred grease. I like the heavy Sta-Lube fiber grease in the green can. Others like something else which is fine... just do it.. and torque the axles tight ( I go to 150 ft lbs) when done.
Larry Shepard

Dave in MD · 01-22-2017, 06:58 PM

Mitch and Larry,
Yes some of the repop bearings have the spiral grease groove while other repops do not. So you cannot rely just on the grooves being there. The bearings that failed on two of our club member cars did have the grooves even though they were worn down. Both members found the problems while doing their greasing maintenance. Also, both owners had been using the Sta-Lube grease.
Dave

Mitch//pa · 01-22-2017, 07:11 PM

Dave
Thank you very much.. i know Brattons was selling those bad ones as they ate a lot of parts from it.. and i mean parts to fix all the damage caused to peoples cars... not sure about the other vendors.

larrys40 · 01-22-2017, 07:58 PM

Wow ! Good to know that and thanks for bring that up. I've seen a lot of bearings but have NOT seen the repros with the groove.

Probably not hardened adequately so self destructed
Larry

Tom Wesenberg · 01-22-2017, 09:42 PM

If you're not planning to replace the axle tube at this time, at least run a smooth mill file over the high spots where it was damaged. You can get by for a while, but I'd feel better for long trips if it had a better bearing surface, which for me would be a different axle tube.

Mitch//pa · 01-22-2017, 09:50 PM

They should make a tap on sleeve like what is available for say a crank shaft etc on a modern

newshirt · 01-22-2017, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

If you're not planning to replace the axle tube at this time, at least run a smooth mill file over the high spots where it was damaged. You can get by for a while, but I'd feel better for long trips if it had a better bearing surface, which for me would be a different axle tube.

What are the consequences of not replacing the axle housing? Will it tear up the roller bearing? Tear up the rest of the bearing surface? Lock up the rear wheel?

midgetracer · 01-22-2017, 10:55 PM

Snyders has a sleeve that repairs the axle housing. It does require machining to fit. The sleeve is only $22, but the machining will be a bit more.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-22-2017, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midgetracer

Snyders has a sleeve that repairs the axle housing. It does require machining to fit. The sleeve is only $22, but the machining will be a bit more.

Plus you'll have to buy a different bearing to fit.

Mitch//pa · 01-22-2017, 11:21 PM

What im talking about is a sleeve saver.. its only a thousands thick
If u ever saw them for modern applications
If something is grooved from a lip seal riding ,, the sleeve makes a new surface

Tom Wesenberg · 01-22-2017, 10:47 PM

As long as the high spots are removed, you'll probably go a long time with what you have. It's when you have metal flake off, or dirt, etc. get into the bearing that it goes quickly. In reality you gouge in the metal hasn't removed a large percent of support, but if you get a chance to replace it, I'd still feel better knowing I had a perfect part.

What was the reason the axle broke?

01-22-2017, 03:55 PM	#2
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Rear wheel bearing play Ray, It is normal for them to be like that. if you fit the bearing itself on the axle housing you will find more of the fit. The things to look for in the bearing and races is any pitting or looseness of the cage on the bearing. on the axle housing surface look at the bottom surface where the load is and there should not be any galling or roughness or grooves on the axle housing bottom. Hub: inside the hub should be free from pits and galling as well. If so you there is a fix for that. Before I would invest in the fix I would look at the hub key way and surface to make sure there's no damage and additionally I would not invest any more in a hub that has hub studs welded. The fix is it can be sleeved with a kit from Snyders or Brattons that uses a sleeve installed in the hub ( following directions of course) and it now uses a V8 68-bearing that is the smaller profile. It will then work as normal onto the axle housing. I have a KR Wilson hub bore gauge they had available in the day to check for bore wear but usually the checks I gave you will be sufficient. that's the long and short of it! Larry Shepard

01-22-2017, 04:04 PM	#3
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Rear wheel bearing play What Larry said::: Beware of the repop rear bearings as there is a lot of defective junk floating around... people have lost their wheels and damaged internal components

01-22-2017, 04:47 PM	#6
Dave in MD Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 175	Re: Rear wheel bearing play Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Amen to what Mitch said. Two of our club members had the repops just about to the failure stage. You can easily spot the repop bearings as they have 12 rollers as opposed to 14 on the original correct type. Also the cages on the ends of the rollers are held in place by all 14 roller pins. The repops have six pins holding the end cages (one between every two rollers). On both cars the pins and cages had cut a significant groove on the inside of the hub. One car had about 7,000 miles while the other had over 8,000 miles. If one of the rear bearings locks up while driving it could be very dangerous. I'd recommend everyone check the rear wheel bearings in their car.

01-22-2017, 06:29 PM	#9
Smooth_One Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: St Clair, Michigan Posts: 395	Re: Rear wheel bearing play My bearings are old ones and I'll be running those because they're in great shape with almost no pitting. __________________ Isaiah B. 1928 all metal Tudor

01-22-2017, 06:36 PM	#10
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Rear wheel bearing play I agree with Tom said that for a long term fix I would probably plan on replacing that housing or getting it sleeved. Remember if you "replace it.... your carrier bearing preload will most likely change. A rear axle rebuild or removal to check out and fix properly is probably in the future.. if not present! The original "A" bearings had a spiral on the rollers. The later Ford and replacement bearings do not. As Mitch, I've not dealt with the repros as I always have a supply of original parts on hand.. which is preferred. They are also probably cheaper than the inferior aftermarkets. search ebay or dropping one of us a PM will give you a bearing or two if you need them. Also.. as for a regular maintenance item it's a good idea to pull the hubs every couple of years and hand pack them with your preferred grease. I like the heavy Sta-Lube fiber grease in the green can. Others like something else which is fine... just do it.. and torque the axles tight ( I go to 150 ft lbs) when done. Larry Shepard

01-22-2017, 06:58 PM	#11
Dave in MD Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 175	Re: Rear wheel bearing play Mitch and Larry, Yes some of the repop bearings have the spiral grease groove while other repops do not. So you cannot rely just on the grooves being there. The bearings that failed on two of our club member cars did have the grooves even though they were worn down. Both members found the problems while doing their greasing maintenance. Also, both owners had been using the Sta-Lube grease. Dave

01-22-2017, 07:11 PM	#12
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Rear wheel bearing play Dave Thank you very much.. i know Brattons was selling those bad ones as they ate a lot of parts from it.. and i mean parts to fix all the damage caused to peoples cars... not sure about the other vendors.

01-22-2017, 07:58 PM	#13
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Rear wheel bearing play Wow ! Good to know that and thanks for bring that up. I've seen a lot of bearings but have NOT seen the repros with the groove. Probably not hardened adequately so self destructed Larry

01-22-2017, 09:42 PM	#14
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Rear wheel bearing play If you're not planning to replace the axle tube at this time, at least run a smooth mill file over the high spots where it was damaged. You can get by for a while, but I'd feel better for long trips if it had a better bearing surface, which for me would be a different axle tube.

01-22-2017, 09:50 PM	#15
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Rear wheel bearing play They should make a tap on sleeve like what is available for say a crank shaft etc on a modern

01-22-2017, 10:55 PM	#17
midgetracer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bismarck ND Posts: 1,189	Re: Rear wheel bearing play Snyders has a sleeve that repairs the axle housing. It does require machining to fit. The sleeve is only $22, but the machining will be a bit more.

01-22-2017, 11:21 PM	#19
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Rear wheel bearing play What im talking about is a sleeve saver.. its only a thousands thick If u ever saw them for modern applications If something is grooved from a lip seal riding ,, the sleeve makes a new surface

01-22-2017, 10:47 PM	#20
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Rear wheel bearing play As long as the high spots are removed, you'll probably go a long time with what you have. It's when you have metal flake off, or dirt, etc. get into the bearing that it goes quickly. In reality you gouge in the metal hasn't removed a large percent of support, but if you get a chance to replace it, I'd still feel better knowing I had a perfect part. What was the reason the axle broke?