The Ford Barn

Old Henry · 06-16-2014, 10:12 PM

In the car show last Saturday Old Henry was assigned to spend the day next to this Ford "Truck":

And, where do you think people mostly congregated? Not around Old Henry nor that totally authentic Model A on the other side. They swarmed over the Ford "Truck".

When I first started going to car shows (way before I restored Old Henry) I was personally attracted to the authentically restored cars much more than the customized or rodded ones. And, there seemed to be way more of the non-authentic customized and rodded ones than the totally authentic restorations. I thought a lot about it and finally figured out why it was - more people are attracted to Art than to History. A truly authentic restoration really is a piece of history and a view into the past. I like to call Old Henry my "Time Machine" that takes me back to the 40's every time I get behind his wheel. On the other hand, it seems more want to ignore the historicality of the old classics and turn them into their own creative piece of art. I had two brother cousins (one has gone on) that were totally opposite that way. One was obsessively meticulous down to thread counts in the upholstery in restoring his cars authentically whereas his brother (as he said at his funeral) saw an old car as an "Artist's Pallet" to shape and mold into his own creative creation.

What do you think? Is there really a greater interest in vehicles that are some kind of creative piece of Art (like the Ford "Truck" next to Old Henry) as I perceive or more that are interested in the restorations that are a piece of History?

cmbrucew · 06-16-2014, 10:34 PM

Prof
I should hope there will always be room for both. Both are AMERICAN IRON.
Bruce

flatford8 · 06-16-2014, 10:45 PM

I enjoy both although I appreciate a car that is driven more than just a museum piece...Mark

ford38v8 · 06-16-2014, 10:48 PM

Well, Professor, once again you have hit the nail squarely on the head. I had never thought of the issue in quite that light before, and had simply stuck up my nose at the modern iron hot rods. I agree with your observation, having been among the throngs myself at one thursday nite show when a particularly obscene rat rod came rolling noisily in. The "Art" was the thing, everyone had to see every detail, pointing and laughing with it, not at it. I loved it too.

BILL WZOREK · 06-17-2014, 03:51 AM

Just a thought as we travel about How many Stock / original cars have we seen broke down on the side of the road,Vs. how many RAT RODS ?????
Each has its place ~
I enjoy cars that are as original & also enjoy the ones that all the parts go into a blender and we see we we can make out of it. ~mixed brands and all~ As long as they don't take a running car to create there ART,
When you look close there is a lot of creativity in some.

PeteVS · 06-17-2014, 04:55 AM

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I don't really wonder which will be the first to go to the crusher on its way to China only to return as a GM car which will be recalled. One will admired for a long time. The other is only admired by its builder. If someone else admires it, they'll probably want to build one themselves rather than buy an existing one.

Tim Ayers · 06-17-2014, 05:19 AM

Well, I think your use of the term of art is appropriate. Here's an example of something in the relates to this topic. In the mid-90's, early 2000's, British artist Damien Hirst was putting sawn in 1/2 cow bodies, skinned lambs and whole sharks into plexiglass boxes. The objects would float in some type of preservative fluid.

The art world immediately divided into two camps: Love or hate. Regardless of which side you were on, it was very hard to resist staring at his work.

I view these radical hot rods (dare I say the term Rat Rod) along the same lines. It may not be your cup of tea, but there are only so many landscape stills (in this case a "stock" car) one can look at before the eye is drawn to something different.

Art or human nature, not sure, but as they say, art is in the eye of the beholder.

Vic Piano · 06-17-2014, 05:23 AM

It all comes down to "different strokes for different folks". Just like they used to tell us in Art Appreciation class in HS, its not the presentation, its the interpretation...

Bassman/NZ · 06-17-2014, 05:59 AM

This is a can of worms. Not the restoration vs the hot rod, but rather the hot rod vs the rat rod. To many, they are one and the same thing, but nothing could be further from the truth. The truck in the pic is a rat rod. A rat rod is a collection of rusty parts thrown together with extremely dubious engineering practices, and scant regard for aesthetics and design. There is very, very little in the way of art involved. A hot rod is a well thought out vehicle constructed with good engineering practices, much thought and consideration given to stance, flow, proportions, colour scheme and reference to tradition.
Therefore, I question the use of the term "art" in relation to the rat rod. Any dimwit numbskull can throw a collection of worn-out, rusty, mismatched articles together with some highly dubious bird-poop welding. This does not make it art. Due to the dumbing down of a very large section of modern society, most of whom would prefer the spanish lady painted on black velvet to the Mona Lisa, it is unfortunately the case that a piece of crap gets more attention than a fine vehicle.
If the vehicle parked next to Old Henry had of been the Bishop/Tardel hot rod, Pat Ganahl's hot rod, or a Brizio built hot rod, I would say yes, this is art vs history.

Bassman/NZ · 06-17-2014, 06:07 AM

Further to my post above, my 1928 Model A is a hot rod. Unfortunately, most of Joe Public, and many hot-rodders, call it a rat rod by virtue of the fact it has a flathead engine. Never mind that I've spent more money on the flathead than I could have bought a crate 350 Chev, to them it's a rat rod.

Ford46 · 06-17-2014, 06:34 AM

Alright may I add my 2 cents to this? Let me state right off I am no fan of rat rods, although I commend the builders for using parts and pieces that would otherwise probably rot away or be brought to a salvage yard. What offends me most, is the haphazard way many of these "vehicles" are put together. Many of them a sane person wouldn't drive across their backyard. I also agree "whatever floats your boat" perhaps I'm jealous of the use of a perfectly good flathead or GMC 6 to power one of them. Bassman/NZ has a point many spectators have no inkling of what they are looking at and always seems to be attracted to the bizarre, perhaps because it's "different"?

Vic Piano · 06-17-2014, 06:53 AM

I don't think I would classify something as a "Rat Rod" because it gave the appearance of being thrown together and was powered by a Flathead...

I've seen plenty of "Rat Rod's" with other power plants, like Nailhead Buicks, early Chrysler Hemi's, Chevy 348's, 409's, 327's, Ford 292's, 312's, Studebaker 259's & 289's... And the list goes on...

I don't particularly care for what most call "Rat Rods", but that's my choice. Build what you want to build and drive what you want to drive, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

sidevalve8ba · 06-17-2014, 07:22 AM

There are fads that come and go in the hot rod world. In my opinion rat rods are one of those fads. As far as how well built they are I have seen a few that are well engineered but they are in the minority.

I have restored cars and I have built hot rods. I like them both. To me driving them is what counts. I have a good friend that built a rat rod of sorts a couple of years ago. He was very gung-ho about it until he took it on a few road trips. He has since built a sedan that is much more "highway friendly".

Steves46 · 06-17-2014, 07:23 AM

Who cares? Build, drive, and enjoy whatever you fancy. Car shows or any other related venues should be about having fun with fellow enthusiasts, not who's car gets the most attention.

sidevalve8ba · 06-17-2014, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steves46

Who cares? Build, drive, and enjoy whatever you fancy. Car shows or any other related venues should be about having fun with fellow enthusiasts, not who's car gets the most attention.

Well said.

millersgarage · 06-17-2014, 07:41 AM

There is a dream factor to these cars, by the general public. Many show goers are not car builders, but can look at a "rat rod" and see something that they could build.

Many are built for the shock factor, and crowd always goes wild for that, just like muffler rap and burn out contests.

Now for my opinion that may or may not be liked.... our world is slowly becoming a slob nation, look at the TV shows. Many glorify the redneck/hillbilly/unkempt lifestyle, and these vehicles represent that. Rust, grease, dirt, real or fake, are all looked at as badges of honor nowdays. The well dressed and clean cars are a different social-economic level.

Vic Piano · 06-17-2014, 07:56 AM

I don't necessarily agree with your last statement, I've seen "car people" that have restored cars and hot rods and/or rat rods, side by side in their garage. If anything, I would suggest that those "different" cars bridge the gap between social & economic standings.

I do agree with Steves46, drive what you like, to each his own.

sidevalve8ba · 06-17-2014, 08:27 AM

This is a photo taken of a "car person's" garage last year. I think they get along pretty well

51 MERC-CT · 06-17-2014, 08:51 AM

Should be titled ' History vs. History' . Just a modern day interperatation of what we had to do back then.
With little or no funds we had to beg or 'borrow' the conglomeration of parts needed to assemble a street drivable vehicle
( not too much unlike the one in the photo and all powered by flatheads )
If given the choice for free of the three vehicles mentioned, guess which one that I would pick.

Seth Swoboda · 06-17-2014, 09:02 AM

Henry, That is why I don't go to car shows anymore. They are full of scrap heaps like that abortion you had to park next too. "Rat Rods" are for people who can't afford even some kind of a paint job. Now a traditional hot rod is something I like to look at. A Rat Rod, that's the biggest load of crap ever contrived.

06-16-2014, 10:12 PM	#1
Old Henry Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 5,762	Art vs. History In the car show last Saturday Old Henry was assigned to spend the day next to this Ford "Truck": And, where do you think people mostly congregated? Not around Old Henry nor that totally authentic Model A on the other side. They swarmed over the Ford "Truck". When I first started going to car shows (way before I restored Old Henry) I was personally attracted to the authentically restored cars much more than the customized or rodded ones. And, there seemed to be way more of the non-authentic customized and rodded ones than the totally authentic restorations. I thought a lot about it and finally figured out why it was - more people are attracted to Art than to History. A truly authentic restoration really is a piece of history and a view into the past. I like to call Old Henry my "Time Machine" that takes me back to the 40's every time I get behind his wheel. On the other hand, it seems more want to ignore the historicality of the old classics and turn them into their own creative piece of art. I had two brother cousins (one has gone on) that were totally opposite that way. One was obsessively meticulous down to thread counts in the upholstery in restoring his cars authentically whereas his brother (as he said at his funeral) saw an old car as an "Artist's Pallet" to shape and mold into his own creative creation. What do you think? Is there really a greater interest in vehicles that are some kind of creative piece of Art (like the Ford "Truck" next to Old Henry) as I perceive or more that are interested in the restorations that are a piece of History? __________________ Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome) "It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness

06-16-2014, 10:34 PM	#2
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: Art vs. History Prof I should hope there will always be room for both. Both are AMERICAN IRON. Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

06-16-2014, 10:45 PM	#3
flatford8 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lyman,ME. Posts: 2,623	Re: Art vs. History I enjoy both although I appreciate a car that is driven more than just a museum piece...Mark __________________ I'm thinkin' about crankin' My ragged ol' truck up and haulin' myself into town. Billy Joe Shaver

06-16-2014, 10:48 PM	#4
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,635	Re: Art vs. History Well, Professor, once again you have hit the nail squarely on the head. I had never thought of the issue in quite that light before, and had simply stuck up my nose at the modern iron hot rods. I agree with your observation, having been among the throngs myself at one thursday nite show when a particularly obscene rat rod came rolling noisily in. The "Art" was the thing, everyone had to see every detail, pointing and laughing with it, not at it. I loved it too. __________________ Alan

06-17-2014, 03:51 AM	#5
BILL WZOREK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florence Ma. Posts: 2,404	Re: Art vs. History Just a thought as we travel about How many Stock / original cars have we seen broke down on the side of the road,Vs. how many RAT RODS ????? Each has its place ~ I enjoy cars that are as original & also enjoy the ones that all the parts go into a blender and we see we we can make out of it. ~mixed brands and all~ As long as they don't take a running car to create there ART, When you look close there is a lot of creativity in some.

06-17-2014, 04:55 AM	#6
PeteVS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: FP, NJ Posts: 2,770	Re: Art vs. History Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I don't really wonder which will be the first to go to the crusher on its way to China only to return as a GM car which will be recalled. One will admired for a long time. The other is only admired by its builder. If someone else admires it, they'll probably want to build one themselves rather than buy an existing one. __________________ Don't never get rid of nuthin!

06-17-2014, 05:19 AM	#7
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,177	Re: Art vs. History Well, I think your use of the term of art is appropriate. Here's an example of something in the relates to this topic. In the mid-90's, early 2000's, British artist Damien Hirst was putting sawn in 1/2 cow bodies, skinned lambs and whole sharks into plexiglass boxes. The objects would float in some type of preservative fluid. The art world immediately divided into two camps: Love or hate. Regardless of which side you were on, it was very hard to resist staring at his work. I view these radical hot rods (dare I say the term Rat Rod) along the same lines. It may not be your cup of tea, but there are only so many landscape stills (in this case a "stock" car) one can look at before the eye is drawn to something different. Art or human nature, not sure, but as they say, art is in the eye of the beholder. Last edited by Tim Ayers; 06-17-2014 at 05:32 AM.

06-17-2014, 05:23 AM	#8
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: Art vs. History It all comes down to "different strokes for different folks". Just like they used to tell us in Art Appreciation class in HS, its not the presentation, its the interpretation... __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

06-17-2014, 05:59 AM	#9
Bassman/NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napier, New Zealand Posts: 2,001	Re: Art vs. History This is a can of worms. Not the restoration vs the hot rod, but rather the hot rod vs the rat rod. To many, they are one and the same thing, but nothing could be further from the truth. The truck in the pic is a rat rod. A rat rod is a collection of rusty parts thrown together with extremely dubious engineering practices, and scant regard for aesthetics and design. There is very, very little in the way of art involved. A hot rod is a well thought out vehicle constructed with good engineering practices, much thought and consideration given to stance, flow, proportions, colour scheme and reference to tradition. Therefore, I question the use of the term "art" in relation to the rat rod. Any dimwit numbskull can throw a collection of worn-out, rusty, mismatched articles together with some highly dubious bird-poop welding. This does not make it art. Due to the dumbing down of a very large section of modern society, most of whom would prefer the spanish lady painted on black velvet to the Mona Lisa, it is unfortunately the case that a piece of crap gets more attention than a fine vehicle. If the vehicle parked next to Old Henry had of been the Bishop/Tardel hot rod, Pat Ganahl's hot rod, or a Brizio built hot rod, I would say yes, this is art vs history.

06-17-2014, 06:07 AM	#10
Bassman/NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napier, New Zealand Posts: 2,001	Re: Art vs. History Further to my post above, my 1928 Model A is a hot rod. Unfortunately, most of Joe Public, and many hot-rodders, call it a rat rod by virtue of the fact it has a flathead engine. Never mind that I've spent more money on the flathead than I could have bought a crate 350 Chev, to them it's a rat rod.

06-17-2014, 06:34 AM	#11
Ford46 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southeastern, MA Posts: 434	Re: Art vs. History Alright may I add my 2 cents to this? Let me state right off I am no fan of rat rods, although I commend the builders for using parts and pieces that would otherwise probably rot away or be brought to a salvage yard. What offends me most, is the haphazard way many of these "vehicles" are put together. Many of them a sane person wouldn't drive across their backyard. I also agree "whatever floats your boat" perhaps I'm jealous of the use of a perfectly good flathead or GMC 6 to power one of them. Bassman/NZ has a point many spectators have no inkling of what they are looking at and always seems to be attracted to the bizarre, perhaps because it's "different"?

06-17-2014, 06:53 AM	#12
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: Art vs. History I don't think I would classify something as a "Rat Rod" because it gave the appearance of being thrown together and was powered by a Flathead... I've seen plenty of "Rat Rod's" with other power plants, like Nailhead Buicks, early Chrysler Hemi's, Chevy 348's, 409's, 327's, Ford 292's, 312's, Studebaker 259's & 289's... And the list goes on... I don't particularly care for what most call "Rat Rods", but that's my choice. Build what you want to build and drive what you want to drive, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

06-17-2014, 07:22 AM	#13
sidevalve8ba Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Harrisonburg, VA Posts: 841	Re: Art vs. History There are fads that come and go in the hot rod world. In my opinion rat rods are one of those fads. As far as how well built they are I have seen a few that are well engineered but they are in the minority. I have restored cars and I have built hot rods. I like them both. To me driving them is what counts. I have a good friend that built a rat rod of sorts a couple of years ago. He was very gung-ho about it until he took it on a few road trips. He has since built a sedan that is much more "highway friendly".

06-17-2014, 07:23 AM	#14
Steves46 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lithia, FL Posts: 1,050	Re: Art vs. History Who cares? Build, drive, and enjoy whatever you fancy. Car shows or any other related venues should be about having fun with fellow enthusiasts, not who's car gets the most attention. __________________ If it aint broke, don't fix it!

06-17-2014, 07:41 AM	#16
millersgarage Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Lansing MI Posts: 188	Re: Art vs. History There is a dream factor to these cars, by the general public. Many show goers are not car builders, but can look at a "rat rod" and see something that they could build. Many are built for the shock factor, and crowd always goes wild for that, just like muffler rap and burn out contests. Now for my opinion that may or may not be liked.... our world is slowly becoming a slob nation, look at the TV shows. Many glorify the redneck/hillbilly/unkempt lifestyle, and these vehicles represent that. Rust, grease, dirt, real or fake, are all looked at as badges of honor nowdays. The well dressed and clean cars are a different social-economic level.

06-17-2014, 07:56 AM	#17
Vic Piano Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Odessa, FL Posts: 7,611	Re: Art vs. History I don't necessarily agree with your last statement, I've seen "car people" that have restored cars and hot rods and/or rat rods, side by side in their garage. If anything, I would suggest that those "different" cars bridge the gap between social & economic standings. I do agree with Steves46, drive what you like, to each his own. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge.

06-17-2014, 08:27 AM	#18
sidevalve8ba Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Harrisonburg, VA Posts: 841	Re: Art vs. History This is a photo taken of a "car person's" garage last year. I think they get along pretty well

06-17-2014, 08:51 AM	#19
51 MERC-CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Hartford, Ct Posts: 5,898	Re: Art vs. History Should be titled ' History vs. History' . Just a modern day interperatation of what we had to do back then. With little or no funds we had to beg or 'borrow' the conglomeration of parts needed to assemble a street drivable vehicle ( not too much unlike the one in the photo and all powered by flatheads ) If given the choice for free of the three vehicles mentioned, guess which one that I would pick. __________________ DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

06-17-2014, 09:02 AM	#20
Seth Swoboda Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 3,787	Re: Art vs. History Henry, That is why I don't go to car shows anymore. They are full of scrap heaps like that abortion you had to park next too. "Rat Rods" are for people who can't afford even some kind of a paint job. Now a traditional hot rod is something I like to look at. A Rat Rod, that's the biggest load of crap ever contrived.