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Old 05-22-2019, 05:24 AM   #1
Forddan
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Default STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Hi

Before you hate me this isn't a thread to ask about the best oil to use in the model A transmission. There are many searching this forum.

What I would like to know, is something simple.

Those, who are using 100% STP in the transmission have experience any negative point ?

Like :

have the external temperature affected the viscosity such that it was not shifting smoothly ?

Or have you experience any other issue that make your mind change, regretting the use of STP ?

Or....you got the idea.

We do not need to enter in another discussion of all the 600 W oils that can be used. I have read them almost all.

In those threads I have NOT read anyone saying something bad about using 100% STP. Because the threads were NOT pointed to get that type of comment, then here we are.

To 100% STP users:

Are you happy with the results ?

Anyone stop using it ?

Will I regret my decision of using 100% STP in my transmission?

Thank you !!!

Cheers
Forddan

Last edited by Forddan; 05-22-2019 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:58 AM   #2
Forddan
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

This is the STP I intend to use



Best !!
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:46 AM   #3
BillCNC
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

I have been using it as it was cheaper than the 600w oil. About two week's ago I bought a case of the 600w and will be swapping the STP out for the 600w.

I have had ZERO negative effect's and would still use it but with this 600w lying around, ... I just want to give it a try.

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Old 05-22-2019, 08:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Boy! Don't I understand your "Disclaimer" (don't hate me) !! I'm using an ultra heavy duty oil, part number G.L. 1500 from Mikes Affordable and really like it. The next best thing -- installed their transmission dip-stick assembly -- don't have to take up my flood board to check fluid level any more --. Instructions to cutting an opening in your board is included --

I do live South Florida so this oil might not be appricated in the Northern States.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Although I don't use Stop think the viscosity could be an issue in low temps. Even the 600 w is a little stiff on a cold morning in Oregon.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

600W cylinder oil is a spec that predates modern standards for viscosity. It is still sold more for it's capability to work around steam or for old style worm gear drives. It is a straight mineral type lube that is comparable to GL1 SAE 140 gear lubricants. Any GL1 SAE 140 type lube will work in a model A transmission. STP is a viscosity builder so a person should mix it with a gear lubricant such as SAE 80 or 90 in order to get an acceptable viscosity. Straight STP is more viscous than SAE 140 gear oil and may cause stiffness in the shifting of gears. Too heavy a viscosity is almost as bad as too thin a viscosity. Another thing to consider is if you look at the advertisement in post 2 you will notice that is now has ZDDP additive. This is an EP additive that may have a detrimental effect on the phosphor bronze or brass in the transmission. This is why they used straight mineral oil in the first place. STP is designed for internal combustion engines.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

STP is not an oil, it's an additive.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
STP is not an oil, it's an additive.
Yes; the closest modern gear oil found, based on inspection of an original "600W" can is 250W, such as Penrite's or Lubriplate SPO 299. These are OK for yellow metals without additives. The ZDDP additive is usually added to engine oils to increase zinc levels but could damage catalytic convertors. That's our understanding why STP discontinued the zinc- rich red bottle in the US some years ago.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:04 AM   #9
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Just use 140 W gear oil & learn to shift your gears properly!!!
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

I use the tranny oil from Bratton's.

FWIW, last weekend on a drive to a cars and coffee, I was crashing gears like crazy. Once it warmed up, I was fine. It was not really cold, just cool and I thought that either: 1. I couldn't shift anymore or 2. my trans was out of oil. I drive it a lot and never really noticed the extent of the crashing before.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

We have been using STP in the transmission and rear end for years.

Shifts nicely, no leaks, changes just like the old 600w oil.

I would recommend. I do understand your beginning comment. Enjoy.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke36 View Post
Yes; the closest modern gear oil found, based on inspection of an original "600W" can is 250W, such as Penrite's or Lubriplate SPO 299. These are OK for yellow metals without additives. The ZDDP additive is usually added to engine oils to increase zinc levels but could damage catalytic convertors. That's our understanding why STP discontinued the zinc- rich red bottle in the US some years ago.
Lubriplate SPO 299 is ISO Grade 1000; they also classify it SAE Gear Oil 250 Heavy. That is quite thick. Probably too thick.

Lubriplate SPO 288, with ISO Grade 680, SAE Gear Oil 250, is closer to the original 600W. This may even be too thick for cold climates, until the transmission warms up. But if you know what's happening and adjust shifting appropriately, it's OK.

The Ford Service Bulletins mention diluting the 600W with 10% kerosene in the winter to thin it out a bit. I don't think I'd bother with that, but you can (if you are driving your A in Minnesota in the winter!). Or use the thinner Lubriplate SPO-277 (ISO 460) in winter, only in the transmission.

With an ISO Grade 680 oil in the transmission, the gears in the transmission will slow down their spinning very quickly when you step on the clutch and shift to neutral. It makes driving and shifting a pleasure. You do not need to double-clutch when going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd gears. You only need to double-clutch when going from 3rd back down to 2nd gear at speeds above 15 MPH.

MANY Model A transmissions have been filled in the past with "modern" gear oil that is way too thin (like SAE 90 or SAE 140 oil). This was mostly done out of ignorance of what viscosity the original oil was, and the guys used what they had on hand. They did not have an SAE 250 oil (probably didn't even know it existed!). As soon as you do that, the shifting problems begin. You have to double-clutch on every shift because the gears spin too fast for too long, so they clash when you shift. Thus began the old wive's tale that you had to double-clutch a Model A all the time. Not so.

Answering the Original Poster's question, STP is not a stand-alone lubricant, it is a thickener additive. It is not intended (per the manufacturer) to be the only thing you put in a gearbox. They say add 10% STP to your manual transmission oil. Sure, running straight STP may work OK, but why do that when the proper ISO 680 (SAE 250) gear oil is available?

YMMV.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

When did they start putting brass components into Model A transmissions?

I can't think of a one.

STP now 100% and about 30 years. No adverse effects. Of course I don't drive cross country in the car. And I have noticed STP is a little "slow" at first when its below freezing - but so was the 600W.

I may be corrected, but STP in my estimation is probably the "original" synthetic oil - engineered for consistency of viscosity no matter the temperature. That is their selling point as it "holds up" and augments a thinner lubricant.

I believe I have STP in my John Deere 110 tractor - which has a lot of commonality with the Model A transmission - straight cut gears, no synchros. But John Deere wanted all of outdoors and my first born child for the quart of JD branded gear oil for this application. But JD is like that. What the market (and market ignorance) will bear.

Tranny (both of them) still going strong.

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Old 05-22-2019, 12:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

The only time I ever have issues with shifting is when I haven't driven the car in a month or so. You kind of forget all the weird idiosyncrasies the transmission has. It only takes a few miles and it all fall back into place. I know it's not because I now have warmed up the transmission because If I drive it after I let it cool down, it shift's flawlessly, ... leaving muscle memory the only variable that changes.

For myself, ... it's forgetting that on my car, shifting into second requires a slight hook to the left when entering into the gear position. Or like 4th requires a slight twist of the wrist to the right.

Every transmission has it's own of shifting issues, it's just up to the driver to know what they are and not forgetting what's required for the shift.

Depending on how much you drive your car, ... it could be just as simple as a Muscle memory problem.

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Old 05-22-2019, 12:24 PM   #15
Forddan
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Thank you all for your answers.

I wrote my "don't hate me" in an ironic and funny way as I have read in many of the previous "gears oil thread" that people ask and ask always the same. So before someone thinks "oh well, hear we go again with the same old story" I just wanted to be funny and clear about my question.

My apologies if was not seen in that way.

Now, to the STP discussion. As I am a newbie on Ford A and don't know anything about mechanics I am cautious before I proceed to my change of the gear oil.

From all what I was able to read, I couldn't find any posting saying something negative about using 100 % STP, less if it is in a ratio 50/50 with one of the 600 W oils sell by the Ford A shops.

Because any of those threads were pointed to just talk about STP, I decided to write this one.

I can see that WHN lives in Connecticut, that means same temperatures at Massachusetts, where I am. And WHN have been using full STP. Beside, I do not plan to drive the A in winter. This one that just finished the A was very relaxed hybernating in the barn. From time to time I was starting it, just to bother him a little :-) . So then why the temp question ? Well, the first week of January we were here in MA without snow but with Minus 11 Celcius = 12,2 Farenheit. Pretty cold, but I couldn't avoid to take him for a ride on that Sunny Saturday.

Now I have new 600W oil from those Ford A sellers. But, I have an almost persistence soft grinding from 1st to 2nd. Not always but enough times to bother me. I have tried shifting immediately or later using double clutching. Both ways with success and failures. From 2nd to 3rd 70% of the time goes fine and others I have a soft grinding.

So, after reading that these 600 W sell buy these A sellers are not precisely what was used during Ford A times I was wondering if I going to full STP , or 50/50 will smooth the shifting to compensate my issue.

Unfortunately I can not find in my area the 600 + modern oils recomended all around also they are sell online in quantities that I will never be able to use them.

With all that, I see STP as a solution.

Best
Daniel (fordan)

Last edited by Forddan; 05-22-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

WOW, 2 more posting during my writing. Thank you !!!
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Something else that has an impact on smooth shifting is idle speed. Your A should be able to idle with the right hand steering column lever in the all the way up position. If it is idling to fast when you take your foot off the gas to shift then the engine/trans cannot slow down enough to facilitate a smooth shift. Chap
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:58 PM   #18
Forddan
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chap52 View Post
Something else that has an impact on smooth shifting is idle speed. Your A should be able to idle with the right hand steering column lever in the all the way up position. If it is idling to fast when you take your foot off the gas to shift then the engine/trans cannot slow down enough to facilitate a smooth shift. Chap
Thank you Chap !! I read that in the forums. At the "clinic tour day" of my club, the experts told me it was idling nice. I only have the right hand lever 1 or 2 notches down when driving, but to tell you the truth, I only feel a change in acceleration when I go below the middle. I will use it now at the top. Will test it this weekend.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forddan View Post
Thank you Chap !! I read that in the forums. At the "clinic tour day" of my club, the experts told me it was idling nice. I only have the right hand lever 1 or 2 notches down when driving, but to tell you the truth, I only feel a change in acceleration when I go below the middle. I will use it now at the top. Will test it this weekend.
I think chap means the RIGHT hand lever (the throttle).

If your A is timed correctly, you will want the left hand lever (spark advance) below the middle while driving. Better performance and easier on the engine.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: STP and Transmission: any negative experience ?

I think I've read in a couple of places that Bratton's or somebody, maybe every vendor was mixing 50/50 600 with STP. If that's true, you're all using it anyway. As for STP not being a lubricant, Take the test! With a straight blade screwdriver, dip the tip in STP. Now try to hold it by the tip! Betcha can't do it!
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