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Old 07-03-2016, 02:39 PM   #1
Mitch//pa
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Thumbs up AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fred S pm'ed me that the AER engine seminar video was posted on their webpage to watch.. It's a must see for everyone, as many questions were answered that commonly surface here. From torquing, the best gasket, type of oil and if zddp is needed, The advantage of insert vs Babbitt , front crank seal, proper piston to wall clearance etc... Personally I found it highly informative....
AER site click the green link on the top of the web page:::
http://antiqueenginerebuilding.com/index.html

Thanks again Fred S for the info

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 07-03-2016 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 07-03-2016, 04:31 PM   #2
russcochiolo
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mitch, thanks for the forward. I learned a bunch. Russ
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Old 07-03-2016, 06:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great video! Thanks Mitch
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Old 07-04-2016, 10:09 AM   #4
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Loved the info on insert bearings. Thanks for the heads-up
Dan
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Old 07-04-2016, 04:38 PM   #5
Kohnke Rebabbitting
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I take issue with 4 statements he made in the video. I will only talk about the most important one as far as Babbitt is concerned.

To hold up a cap with loose Babbitt, and say Babbitt fails is asinine. Babbitt will not fail if it is installed correctly.

Ford made Millions of cars with Babbitt, and the only Babbitt problems was through abuse, and lose of lubrication.

There were thousandths of race cars built from the teens on up, and bearing problems were not an issue.

Now, there are lots, and lots of u-Tube videos we have watched, I have yet to see one that knows the process, excluding the Boys on this forum.

They try to pour engine bearings like a saw mill bearing, and those two have nothing in common.

In 52 years now, we have never had Babbitt break tinning.

Herm. KohnkeRebabbittingService.com
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Old 07-04-2016, 05:05 PM   #6
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Mitch, very informative. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 07-04-2016, 05:28 PM   #7
Benson
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Herm,

My friend had an engine rebuilt with babbit in 1966.

He drove it 55 to 60 MPH until it got to 35,000 miles and got nervous so he pulled one shim on one side of each bearing in turn. When he tightened them back down the crank was locked.

So he put the shims back in and drove it another 35,000 miles and it was still going at 70,000 when he died.

Is this unusual for a babbit engine?

He told me many years ago that he always built engines with no more than three .002 shims. He said any more was not needed and multiple shim packs that some were using just allowed the bearing to move around

Thanks
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have not long since taken delivery of a Model A from the US which has Babbit bearings. I have no idea about its history but suspect the previous owner drove fast. The bearings rattled terribly on start up and thumped under load. I took 7 thou out of the middle main and the rear one but haven't got to the front one. There is still a slight thump under power which I am expecting to be the from the front main which I will get to when I can. One half of the thrust face on the rear main was completely broken away but luckily all in one piece. What I did with this is going to make some of you whince but here goes. I thoroughly cleaned both faces with wax and grease remover and SUPER GLUED IT BACK. Not all that many miles since but so far so good.
These babbit bearings were very worn but in good condition so far as not broken etc. No insert would tolerate that much wear without scoring the journal and destroying itself. Pouring babbit properly is not as easy a job as many novices think but done properly, they take beating.
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Mitch . Good video.
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Old 07-04-2016, 07:25 PM   #10
Kohnke Rebabbitting
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He drove it 55 to 60 MPH until it got to 35,000 miles and got nervous so he pulled one shim on one side of each bearing in turn. When he tightened them back down the crank was locked.

So he put the shims back in and drove it another 35,000 miles and it was still going at 70,000 when he died. "END QUOTE"

Mr. Benson, I had about the same thing happen to me, but it was a Model T and had 15,000 miles after the Alaska tour in 1987. It belonged to Howard Kittelson, from Louisburg, Mn. He wanted me to check the rods, as he drove it wide open most of the time. I took a .002 shim out of each rod, and put in a .001 shim. It would lock every rod, could not turn just one rod at a time, with the other 3 loose.

That was the first time we ever had a chance to check our work. That was on a 1927 Roadster. The next year we done a 15, or 16 motor for him.


He told me many years ago that he always built engines with no more than three .002 shims. He said any more was not needed and multiple shim packs that some were using just allowed the bearing to move around. "END QUOTE"

I agree some what, any bearing does not need more then .006 shims, to be serviceable. Normally, after you have used up .003 shims in a bearing, it is shot.

The problem with just using 2 or 3 thousandths only in shims is the caps not having all the metal on the part lines as when new, and you have to have that casting hole round before you start.

We have had big bearings that have had 1/4 inch shim packs, as that was the thickness of the saw used to cut the cap loose from the bearing. It is common to have thickness of 3/16, 1/8, ect.

On Model A and T's we use .032.

We have never had a shim move, or shrink.

Herm.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:33 PM   #11
Benson
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Herm,

Thanks for your thoughts and information on the Babbitt process .

I just wondered if that info that Mike gave me was still valid to some extent.

As that was 45 years ago I suppose that there might have been more rod caps that were not filed or machined like are found today.

Last edited by Benson; 07-07-2016 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Model A's are 'dirty' engines, i.e. process a lot of contaminants like carbon and less than great air and oil filtration.
Babbitt is much better suited to handle this and not score the bearings or crank.
Changing oil at least every 2000 miles(with oil and air filters) is a must.
That's my humble opinion. Cheers...
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Old 07-07-2016, 12:26 AM   #13
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has anyone had any problems running a metal timing gear on an AER engine?
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Old 07-07-2016, 05:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Been running one of Dan M.'s bronze cam gears and his steel crank gears for thousands of miles on my AER engine. No problems. To
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Old 07-07-2016, 07:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the link. Very informative, and a must see for anyone who builds are plans to build.
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:00 AM   #16
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Default Re: AER seminar a must watch video!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phred View Post
Been running one of Dan M.'s bronze cam gears and his steel crank gears for thousands of miles on my AER engine. No problems. To
Thanks. I've got a Brattons alloy gear. Haven't fitted it yet and I'm hoping it will be within specs. (using the 330 cam).
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