Photo of very early production engine drop...

[Steve Plucker]

Contained in the 2013 Bratton's Catalog on page 173, is a photo of a FORD worker installing an engine into a frame.

Interesting on what one sees here:

1. No front shock absorbers holes;
2. The four (4) rivets for the very early rear motor mounts;
3. No A-2504 (Brake rod spring bracket-front);
4. Cad plated A-2475 (Equalizer operating shaft pin clip);
5. What appears to be a engine number pad above the inlet hole (2nd generation);
6. Early style pedal pads:
7. Something funny about the starter.

Dudley...Is this the photo you have been telling me about?

To bad there is no date on the photo...maybe on the original photo?

Anything else?

Pluck

[Clem Clement]

Pluck,
Why not call Walt and ask him. he is easy to talk to. Or perhaps Jeff would know

[Tudortomnz]

What about putting the photo up so we can have a look??

[Roadster62]

Yes, please share that info with us. Bob

Originally Posted by Tudortomnz

What about putting the photo up so we can have a look??

[Steve Plucker]

Here is my problem...

I would like to very much but last night something happened to my printer...It tells me that it is jamed with paper...NOT...then it tells me to open the top, which I do...then it tells me to press Ok and I do...then it tells me to close the top and print...which I do BUT the command then goes back to the fact that the printer is jamed and it makes me go through the whole thing again...What the heck!

I am in wheat harvest right now and don't know when I can get this darn thing fixed!

Maybe someone out there can.

Pluck

[d.j. moordigian]

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Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Contained in the 2013 Bratton's Catalog on page 173, is a photo of a FORD worker installing an engine into a frame.

Interesting on what one sees here:

1. No front shock absorbers holes;
2. The four (4) rivets for the very early rear motor mounts;
3. No A-2504 (Brake rod spring bracket-front);
4. Cad plated A-2475 (Equalizer operating shaft pin clip);
5. What appears to be a engine number pad above the inlet hole (2nd generation);
6. Early style pedal pads:
7. Something funny about the starter.

Dudley...Is this the photo you have been telling me about?

To bad there is no date on the photo...maybe on the original photo?

Anything else?

Pluck

Morning Steve,

Yep,...that's the one!
Also, the straddle mount Powerhouse Generator mount.
Here is the earlier post started by Tom Wesenberg with other
photos.......... 1928 Starter Switch is a bit different..........

[1931 flamingo]

Steve: Look for a torn piece of paper possibly covering a switch or sensor. Disc the printer and reinstall?
Paul in CT Or power off the whole system and turn back on?

[Marco Tahtaras]

I don't have Bratton's latest catalog so I can't even see a small pic of what you are referring to. However it sounds like it's the source of this pic below which I first posted about five years ago.

It's been my contention for several years that the pic of engine A1 was NOT a staged photo of a later engine as many have suggested. I've also talked about the first starter and switch but not been able to pull any good info on them.

[QGolden]

I did not know that the early '28's had the E Brake handle on the left side... Thx!

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

I don't have Bratton's latest catalog so I can't even see a small pic of what you are referring to. However it sounds like it's the source of this pic below which I first posted about five years ago.

Marco,....that's the one...

It's been my contention for several years that the pic of engine A1 was NOT a staged photo of a later engine as many have suggested. I've also talked about the first starter and switch but not been able to pull any good info on them.

I need to have a "talk" about that,...too get your perspective.

Thank you..

[dlshady]

That starter looks very Model T'ish, and almost looks like it even has the 4 bolt mounting flange. Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a copy of the #1 engine stamping photo handy? I have it on my computer at home but would like to look at something.

The very narrow engine number pad up high is very interesting, and would almost imply that the first ones were high and narrow, changed to a low number pad (like the late Model T's) before A189 and then back to a high pad (wider than before) by A633. Very unusual...

[d.j. moordigian]

Here you go...........

[Steve Plucker]

Well, in the January 1, 1928 Parts Price List, it indicates for the Starter Motor, A-11002-B and for the Starter Switch Assembly, A-11450-B.

NOW...What did A-11002-A and A-11450-A look like?

Hmmmmmmm.

Pluck

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by dlshady

That starter looks very Model T'ish, and almost looks like it even has the 4 bolt mounting flange. Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a copy of the #1 engine stamping photo handy? I have it on my computer at home but would like to look at something.

The very narrow engine number pad up high is very interesting, and would almost imply that the first ones were high and narrow, changed to a low number pad (like the late Model T's) before A189 and then back to a high pad (wider than before) by A633. Very unusual...

Very interesting thought Deron!

Pluck

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Well, in the January 1, 1928 Parts Price List, it indicates for the Starter Motor, A-11002-B and for the Starter Switch Assembly, A-11450-B.

NOW...What did A-11002-A and A-11450-A look like?

Hmmmmmmm.

Pluck

I bet were looking at them.....

[d.j. moordigian]

Steve....just had a "chuckle"....you remember when somebody asked if the "pads"
started out at the top, then went down, then went up again? Sure you do!
Hell....you might have to rewrite the "block study"......

I think I need to call Marco....

* Gezzz...I need to type faster....*

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Well, in the January 1, 1928 Parts Price List, it indicates for the Starter Motor, A-11002-B and for the Starter Switch Assembly, A-11450-B.

NOW...What did A-11002-A and A-11450-A look like?

Hmmmmmmm.

Pluck

They look exactly like what we've shown on this page and the photo which prompted you to start this discussion

Originally Posted by dlshady

The very narrow engine number pad up high is very interesting, and would almost imply that the first ones were high and narrow, changed to a low number pad (like the late Model T's) before A189 and then back to a high pad (wider than before) by A633. Very unusual...

Not exactly. The lower pad was indeed the first design and several casting patterns (for lack of correct nomenclature) were produced in this first design. The second design was a small engineering change and patterns were produced with the new design. Records and other evidence (such as the photos in question) indicate that this did indeed happen prior to formal production of engines including A1.

As with all tooling there is a limited life cycle. With large numbers of these in play at any given time it would be foolish to toss out and waste the first ones (perfectly good) until they've outlived their usefulness.

That would of course mean that the two designs ran concurrently during that period. However we don't know how many of the early patterns were produced so we can't begin to speculate what the ratio of old to new was. It could have been 20:1, 30:1 etc.

Now jump to the current time. How many three digit number blocks have been documented? Of the first six hundred numbers or so that all seem to show the high pad, there has only been a handful. Odds alone can easily account for not finding a lower numbered block with the high pad.

[dlshady]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

<snip>

Now jump to the current time. How many three digit number blocks have been documented? Of the first six hundred numbers or so that all seem to show the high pad, there has only been a handful. Odds alone can easily account for not finding a lower numbered block with the high pad.

I have a fairly complete list at home, but the earliest high pad I've personally seen appears to have a wider pad than the one in the photos. That's why I was interested in seeing the #1 photo. It just seems a bit odd that all of the blocks that have surfaced thus far numbered A616 and below have the low pad, while all of the surviving blocks numbered A630ish and up have all been a high pad with what looks to be a wider pad than shown in the photos. The pad in the photos looks like it's only 1 1/2" wide, at most. Certainly a possibility though, that they were used up concurrently.

If you look at the #1 stamping photo, it's pretty obviously a four bolt starter flange on the flywheel housing, just like my Model T. Can't believe I never noticed that in all the times I looked at that photo!

But hey, I'm still trying to figure out how Mr. Louck's straight framed Canadian roadster ended up ever being built with all the early pre-production parts on it....

[dlshady]

I have a few more thoughts on this, but I have GOT to get some work done at some point today so they'll have to wait until tonight. However...

In that #1 stamping photo, does it look to you guys like the whole throttle lever is cad plated, or is it just the reflection?


ETA: The more I look at it, I'm thinking reflection. OK, now I really gotta get some work done...

[1931 flamingo]

Also interesting is how they ran water into the engine on the stand, and the enclosed fixture behind the tranny u-joint area. Is it possible that the "pad" was made longer to accommodate higher engine #'s, as they had no way of knowing how many they were going to manufacture??
Paul in CT