12V horn on 6V system, WORK???

[Banky]

Will this work? I need a horn, but just something to get me by for now. I have other priorities that need done before a good or restored original horn purchase.

Thoughts?

[Cajun]

It will pull twice the amps. I suspect it will burn up if it honks.

[Banky]

Hmmmm. What about using a voltage reducer? Or do they only make those to go the other way?

[1931 flamingo]

Maybe I'm wrong but sounds like he wants to blow a 12V horn with 6 volts??
Paul in CT

[eagle]

Will probably sound pretty sick but won't hurt anything.

[Tom Wesenberg]

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As Eagle said, it might sound more like a sick cow than a raging bull, but it won't hurt to try.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

To go from 6V to 12V and maintain the same amperage. Get 2 transformers that are 2:1 ratio. Supply the low side of both with 6V. connect the the two high sides together and attach to the horn. You will now have 12V with the same amps as the 6V.

[juke joint johnny]

I have one on my truck 6 volt horn on 12 volts with an alternater no voltage reducer .
It is pretty loud but works fine !!! just for short bursts don't ride on it!!!


John Cochran

[marc hildebrant]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

To go from 6V to 12V and maintain the same amperage. Get 2 transformers that are 2:1 ratio. Supply the low side of both with 6V. connect the the two high sides together and attach to the horn. You will now have 12V with the same amps as the 6V.

That only works with AC. If you do that with the DC Model A circuit, you will (If lucky) blow a fuse as a transformer is a short at DC.

Marc

[Ross/Kzoo]

Originally Posted by juke joint johnny

I have one on my truck 6 volt horn on 12 volts with an alternater no voltage reducer .
It is pretty loud but works fine !!! just for short bursts don't ride on it!!!


John Cochran

I believe that your situation is the reverse of what the OP is posting about.

[juke joint johnny]

Your right Ross I'm going the opposite way!!!!!
I don't see that a 12 volt Horn will work on a 6 volt system

Look around the Flea markets You should find a 6 voltbeep horn for not much money .
It wont be an A horn but at least it will make a noise that's the main thing

[Joe K]

I have "aftermarket" ahooga horns (the ones sold by JC Whitney, Western Auto and the like) in both 6v and 12v versions.

After sitting on the shelf for a while I forget which is which. The test is to put them on a 6v battery. The 6v horns sound pretty good. The 12v horn not so much.

But I expect if a registration station inspector heard the 12v horn on 6v, and had nothing to compare it to, he wouldn't know the difference.

Just for giggles (and because they're a cheap horn) I tried the 6v horn on 12v. (We did an upgrade on a Ford 9n from 6v to 12v without changing the starter - and the starter worked fine in that application.)

Holding the 6v horn in my hand I made the connection to the battery with my other hand. The difference in starting torque was immediately felt - and while I didn't fear for my life, I didn't like the sound, or the stress put on that 6v horn.

Not recommended...

Joe K

[Fred K-OR]

Would this thing work to get the 6 volts up to 12 volts so you could run the horn???

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...dde2e0&vxp=mtr

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

That only works with AC. If you do that with the DC Model A circuit, you will (If lucky) blow a fuse as a transformer is a short at DC.

Marc

A coil is a transformer and it works on a Model A. I have used many transformers with DC voltages as high as 400VDC without encountering the problem that you suggest. Is there something I'm missing?

[Phil]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

A coil is a transformer and it works on a Model A. I have used many transformers with DC voltages as high as 400VDC without encountering the problem that you suggest. Is there something I'm missing?

The coil works because the points are rapidly opening and closing, making pulsed dc. Transformers require a building and collapsing the field around the conductors. Pure dc will not operate a transformer.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

A coil is a transformer and it works on a Model A. I have used many transformers with DC voltages as high as 400VDC without encountering the problem that you suggest. Is there something I'm missing?

I think he's referring to a straight AC transformer. What you're referring to was used in the early automobile radios as a 'vibrator' and interrupted the dc circuit thereby simulating a sinusoidal current for a step-up transformer.

And yes, some of these radio "step up" transformers would produce the B+ voltages for vacuum tube radios.

Gosh, I haven't thought of those radios (or the gentle hum behind the dash) since I was a kid!

Joe K

[marc hildebrant]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

A coil is a transformer and it works on a Model A. I have used many transformers with DC voltages as high as 400VDC without encountering the problem that you suggest. Is there something I'm missing?

Rock,

Transformers operate by having magnetic fields changing and thus generating voltage (change in flux divided by time). An Ignition coil in a Model A has the magnetic field changing (ON/OFF) due to the points. This is not DC (Direct Current) but rather pulsating DC which if you break down into the Fourier Series of the pulse train, is a series of AC(Alternating Current) .

My point is not to sound like a " know it all...." I'm just trying to give you a correct answer.

Vibrating coils/points/etc. can be used to make different voltages using transformers and DC , but, by itself, DC can not be used with a transformer.

Marc

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

Rock,

Transformers operate by having magnetic fields changing and thus generating voltage (change in flux divided by time). An Ignition coil in a Model A has the magnetic field changing (ON/OFF) due to the points. This is not DC (Direct Current) but rather pulsating DC which if you break down into the Fourier Series of the pulse train, is a series of AC(Alternating Current) .

My point is not to sound like a " know it all...." I'm just trying to give you a correct answer.

Vibrating coils/points/etc. can be used to make different voltages using transformers and DC , but, by itself, DC can not be used with a transformer.

Marc

Marc,

Thank you for the refresher. I was totally spaced out, and had forgotten that the DC I studied was derived from AC within the circuitry of the electronic equipment. Yes, alternating magnetic fluctuating fields expanding and contracting transferring from the primary inductive field to the secondary field. Hope I remembered that correctly. It's a bummer when you try to get your mind to go back 50 years for something that you seldom used after taking the class. So, I think what you refer to as "vibrating coil/points", is a capacitive/inductive pulse generator such as a beat freguency ossilator in a tube type reciever, which is causing the coil to function simular to a transformer. ????
Thanks again,
Rock

[marc hildebrant]

Rock,

Lots of stuff in your last reply....BFO (Beat Frequency Oscillators) and more....

Lets just say that the main thing is that a changing magnetic field is needed for transformers to work.

Re: 50 years...indeed. While electrical stuff is easy for me (Electrical Engineer 40 years), the basic mechanical stuff is still a challenge !

When I'm under the Model A, I have to remember which way to tighten the screw !

Marc

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

Rock,

Lots of stuff in your last reply....BFO (Beat Frequency Oscillators) and more....

Lets just say that the main thing is that a changing magnetic field is needed for transformers to work.

Re: 50 years...indeed. While electrical stuff is easy for me (Electrical Engineer 40 years), the basic mechanical stuff is still a challenge !

When I'm under the Model A, I have to remember which way to tighten the screw !

Marc

Marc,

It's not real comforting to realize that my long term memory has jumped into the hand basket. Last night I was trying to remember the circuitry of square wave and sawtooth generators. And still trying to remember how 120VAC was changed to B+ and neg voltage for cathodes in tube theory. I'm damned determined to remember, and too stuborn to google it. Right after studying tube type electronics, we moved immediately to (NEW) transistor theory ( I vaquely remember hole flow). That should be some indication to me as to how long ago it was. I gave up on trying to comprehend micro-electronics. I can remember resistor value markings only because of the jingle about b bad, b boys r xxxx, o our, y young, g girls, b but, v violet, g gives, w willingly, g get, s some, n now. Now it's time for one of my little brown pills, that looks like and tastes like something from a rabbitt.

Always a pleasure to communicate with another engineering discipline.

Marc, it's righty-tighty and lefty-loosey.

[Fred K-OR]

Yes you double E's really get into it.

[1931 flamingo]

Rock: Your post #20 brings back many memories, NATTC Memphis AFU-A School65-66. Tube theory, had 2 1st class ET's (maybe, probably bosun's mates) trying to teach one particular type tube, all I can remember is them saying (and repeating) "AFTER the tube has fired this is what happens". Everybody asked "How does it fire?", and they repeated "AFTER the tube has fired this is what happens".
Paul in CT

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Rock: Your post #20 brings back many memories, NATTC Memphis AFU-A School65-66. Tube theory, had 2 1st class ET's (maybe, probably bosun's mates) trying to teach one particular type tube, all I can remember is them saying (and repeating) "AFTER the tube has fired this is what happens". Everybody asked "How does it fire?", and they repeated "AFTER the tube has fired this is what happens".
Paul in CT

I think ??? when the grid is fired positive it allows electrons to flow from the neg charged cathode to the pos charged plate. There were triodes and pentodes and that's all I can remember. I seem to recall, as the grid went pos with a sine wave, the plate followed negatively, but with an amplified wave.??? Time for another little brown pill.

[Cory Moffat]

I have a 12 volt police siren on my coupe 6 volt system. It takes a little longer for it to get wound up on 6 than on 12. However it still works.