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Old 11-30-2017, 06:47 PM   #1
GRutter
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Default Engine Number Help

I have a late 31 Closed Cab Pickup that I recently purchased.
Was titled in Ohio using engine number 34466 as the VIN number.
When I went to register in NC, DMV won't title because VIN number is inconsistent with year make model for a 31 Model A.
I do agree that it's not a typical "Star xxxx Star" type number, but just assumed it's a replacement engine. Don't see any markings that it's a later diamond block. Is there any documentation for replacement engine numbering that might satisfy the DMV. So far the only "solution" they have come up with is to disassemble the vehicle to find the frame stamping. I need another solution.

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Old 11-30-2017, 06:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

You'll probably want to raise the body and see if you can read the frame number.

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Old 11-30-2017, 07:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

If you have a current registration, title, and/or bill of sale from previous owner. Numbers all match, ask to see manager.

They might want to see other paperwork going back a few years, old Insurance policies, anything to confirm chain of ownership.

I don’t see why you would be asked to disassemble car. You have a state title. Good luck. Enjoy.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:02 PM   #4
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I would hit another dmv and start over....................
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

This truck is too nice to start disassembling. It's a 20 year old restoration but hasn't been driven much in the last 20 years. And DMV said they wouldn't use the frame number because its not 'publicly visible'. A lot of work to find a number they won't use. They want to validate that the vehicle isn't a stolen
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

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Originally Posted by GRutter View Post
This truck is too nice to start disassembling. It's a 20 year old restoration but hasn't been driven much in the last 20 years. And DMV said they wouldn't use the frame number because its not 'publicly visible'. A lot of work to find a number they won't use. They want to validate that the vehicle isn't a stolen
I must be really missing something here. There are a lot of states that donít even title cars more than 20 model years old.

If I understand you, all numbers match paperwork, right?

I would ask manager what more paperwork they need and why.

Here in Connecticut on cars over 20 years old you just need bill of sale and current registration from previous owner. Good luck.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

Can you use AAA in NC, they will work with you not against you.

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Old 11-30-2017, 07:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRutter View Post
I have a late 31 Closed Cab Pickup that I recently purchased.
Was titled in Ohio using engine number 34466 as the VIN number.
When I went to register in NC, DMV won't title because VIN number is inconsistent with year make model for a 31 Model A.
I do agree that it's not a typical "Star xxxx Star" type number, but just assumed it's a replacement engine. Don't see any markings that it's a later diamond block. Is there any documentation for replacement engine numbering that might satisfy the DMV. So far the only "solution" they have come up with is to disassemble the vehicle to find the frame stamping. I need another solution.

Attachment 340509
So, What they are saying is that engine # was built by the books in very late Feb.1928, this is true only for the #s, but with out the stars..It has been ground & re-stamped by some one.. Now what will they say if the frame has been changed & #s come up to a 1930 stamping ??..
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

Have clean Ohio title. Numbers on title match engine. DMV doesn't like the number, as it is 'inconsistent' for a Model A Ford. And the Engine number is in use for a 1970's vintage trailer registered to someone else. I know that Ford made engines for Model A's for years. There was a post on this forum from another owner that had a similar stamped engine, but his was a diamond block and his engine number also had no stars. Diamond blocks had another tag that indicated month & yr of manufacture.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

Here is the link to the other thread on FordBarn with a similarly stamped engine.
Is there any documentation that indicates where these engines came from and how they were numbered ?

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ghlight=pickup
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRutter View Post
Have clean Ohio title. Numbers on title match engine. DMV doesn't like the number, as it is 'inconsistent' for a Model A Ford. And the Engine number is in use for a 1970's vintage trailer registered to someone else. I know that Ford made engines for Model A's for years. There was a post on this forum from another owner that had a similar stamped engine, but his was a diamond block and his engine number also had no stars. Diamond blocks had another tag that indicated month & yr of manufacture.
As them what they mean as to "INCONSISTENT" for a Model A Ford.. The #s you give 34,466 were stamped on an A block on 2/28/28 They may only be looking for the A before the #s or the Stars on each end, but I doubt that about the Stars.. That # comes right from Fords daily production logs.. But they also due look to have been changed.. But if is on the other title, stamp an A on it..
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

Your original engine was removed sometime in the past. It looks like the local mechanic replaced the engine and stamped that number or used an engine from some other thing like a combine for whatever reason and the car was retitled. If you are looking for a rhyme or reason for that specific number you will have to find the guy that stamped it and ask him as there could be a thousand reasons for doing so. The engines from the Ford motor company either had a serial number that starts with a star or nothing on it at all that could be used builders of other things.

If your car has a number that is already in use you will need to ask them how to get another from the state.
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

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Originally Posted by GRutter View Post
This truck is too nice to start disassembling. It's a 20 year old restoration but hasn't been driven much in the last 20 years. And DMV said they wouldn't use the frame number because its not 'publicly visible'. A lot of work to find a number they won't use. They want to validate that the vehicle isn't a stolen
That's the first time I've heard anybody will not use a frame number. Are there licensed contractors out there that can help you? If Ford actually made engines without a serial number, I'd think you would be better off without one, but you could get into trouble grinding it off. If it were mine as it's not that hard to get the frame number, photograph it, get a rubbing and you know at least what should be on there to qualify 99.999% of the time as the correct VIN.
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

I knew a guy in Arizona who bought a Model A in Washington and had a similar problem when trying to register the car in AZ. The Washington title used the frame number, but the engine had been changed at some point in time, so numbers didn't match. This guy was told he would have to raise the body to show the AZ DMV the frame number. So, he had a local trophy shop make a brass plate with the frame number engraved onto it. He attached it to the frame with JB Weld, then rubbed dirt and grease all over it to "age" it. He went back to the AZ DMV, raised the floorboard to show the newly made frame number, and they bought it.
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

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Originally Posted by Michael in Sedona View Post
I knew a guy in Arizona who bought a Model A in Washington and had a similar problem when trying to register the car in AZ. The Washington title used the frame number, but the engine had been changed at some point in time, so numbers didn't match. This guy was told he would have to raise the body to show the AZ DMV the frame number. So, he had a local trophy shop make a brass plate with the frame number engraved onto it. He attached it to the frame with JB Weld, then rubbed dirt and grease all over it to "age" it. He went back to the AZ DMV, raised the floorboard to show the newly made frame number, and they bought it.
Wouldn't it have been easier to simply stamp the numbers on the frame?
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

Good afternoon to all...Many of our Model 'A's have had several engines over the years. Many engines cracked and were replaced with rebuilt ones from the engine builder's stock on hand. Normally this is the time to ask the supplier for paperwork to back up the engine switch. If the number on your engine matches your paper work then see if your state has a private registration company that can also register your 'A'. Otherwise, folks have been known to grind off the engine number and re-number the engine to match the paperwork. Also, I have known folks to go to the state 'Highway Patrol' and ask for certification that the car is not listed as stolen in the state. I have seen this work as well. Ernie
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: Engine Number Help

I think the advise of going to a different DMV office in your area is good advise. Here in Oregon, my neighbor had a similar problem with one DMV office. Went to another and got the job done. It would be worth a try.
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