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Old 12-28-2014, 12:10 PM   #1
Terry, NJ
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Default Paint warning!

Without getting into the pros and cons of what paint cost, etc, Let me pass along a warning about paints. To begin with, I painted my fenders with TSC "Magic" paint and I used their primer with it. I was told to put "Bedliner" on the undersides of the fenders to protect the fenders from small stones and other stuff that might be thrown up against it. I was applying the bedliner to it. I thought the paint was well mixed up, not really! When first I put it on it was almost clear and I was able to dig a lot of pigment out of the can. So I mixed it again and it was much better and I proceeded to work my way across the fender until I was done. Then I looked to where I started and there was a small (2 sq. inches) area where the paint had crazed and was lifting off the primer. I concluded that in it's poorly mixed state, it would dissolve the TSC paint. I'm thankful it was in a hidden area and not visible. But My advice to anyone trying this to make absolutely sure that there paints are well mixed. BTW, I was using Rustoleum bedliner and it must contain some fairly strong solvent.
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:43 PM   #2
Curt Campbell
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Default Re: Paint warning!

Go to body shop (reputable) and see how much TSC "magic" a n d rustoleum paint they have around. TSC products have their place...They were intended to slop some color on a dirty old tractor in a dirty barn with $20 paint gun.

I cringe when I read about model A guys even considering TSC OR rustoleum for that matter. Too much work to use shit paint.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Paint warning!

I totally agree with Curt, Rustoleum really doesn't do the job. When I first starting on my model A restoration, I used Rustoleum primer and top coat, not the spray cans, but in quarts with a decent spray gun. BTW, I sandblasted and cleaned the metal before priming and painting, so the surface was good. I noticed the rustoleum would come off with very little rubbing or scraping and expose the primer. I ended up resandblasting the frame and other items I used Rustoleum on and painted them with a high quality paint - normally PPG auto paint products like DP90 and Concept. The PPG items are much more expensive, but like the old saying goes "you get what you pay for". I no longer use cheap paints like Rustoleum on my items to be painted. I am sure other people will swear that Rustoleum is great, but this is my experience with it.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Paint warning!

Hey Terry,
Sorry to hear of your paint woes !
Curious how you kept 'bedliner' from areas to be painted, like fender bead, etc ?

I've 'accumulated' a few small lumps/bumps on rear fenders from stones or whatever. So, I interested in whether that bedliner idea works out ? I've had several truck beds lined by various sprayed liner products , like Rhino, etc....and it is messy process, IMO.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: Paint warning!

I put brush-on bed liner from a can on the inside of my trunk. That stuff nearly knocked me out with the fumes. I bet it would ruin nearby paint pretty quickly.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Paint warning!

It's like I always say, good paint is not that expensive. Especially when you compare the paint to the cost of the whole restoration. Good paint is worth the money, no matter which major brand of paint supplier you go with. All the major auto paint suppliers top shelf paint products will be about the same quality as the others. You're not gaining anything by saving a few bucks on paint material by choosing cheap paint. Cheap paint does exactly what it's intended to do. It'll looks decent enough to look like new paint, but it won't have near the lifetime or durability of quality materials.
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Paint warning!

Terry, I think you succumbed to a typical newbie situation in that you were likely overwhelmed with excitement & anxiety in this task which is a good reason why the paint did not get properly mixed ...thoroughly. Practice makes perfect. I'm sure the next time you do this, we can all be assured that the next batch of paint WILL be thoroughly mixed!
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Old 12-28-2014, 07:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Paint warning!

I purchased a paint shaker from HF and laged it to the concrete. I used it EVERY time I use the paint. Even if it's only been hours since I used it. Never a worry, and never any doubt about the paint being mixed.
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Old 12-28-2014, 11:34 PM   #9
Terry, NJ
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Default Re: Paint warning!

I thought I could get away with the TSC stuff on the fenders, maybe not! I just priced the paints for the body, PPG 1 gal of epoxy primer, 1 gal of lower body paint, 2 Qts of upper body paint + hardner and reducer $340. No TSC or Kirker for this! How does this sound?
I just painted the underside of the fender and stopped at the edge. That was the easy part. Some day, if I ever get this paint business out of the way and get this car back on the road again (and have enough money to buy gas) I will report on the efficacy of Rustoleum's Bedliner.
Yeah Brent, that was how it was except that yesterday was a very nice day here and I was rushing to get it done before I lost the light and warmth. The hurrier I go , the behinder I get! "Ya never have time to do it right the first time, but ya always find time to do it right the second time!"
Wish me luck!
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Old 03-28-2017, 01:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Paint warning!

I painted the frame of my jeep cj7 with TSP magic gloss black 2 years ago after first spraying the whole wire wheeled frame with phosphoric acid to convert the rust (iron oxide) to (iron phosphate) did three or 4 full wet sprays all over entire frame let dry fully its actually amazing to watch the rust convert. Sanding between coats except the last coat I then did magic TSC primer than the paint (2 full coats worth) bushed it on. It is an oil based enamel paint and drys to touch in 24 hours but takes well over a month to fully cure. It is hard as nails actually harder the stuff makes rocks look soft. My jeep is a work vehicle the back is converted to tool boxes and I'm out at job sites and on road daily I drive 55,000 miles a year and the old girl just passed 513,000 miles of hard use. so I have 110k ish miles on that frame paint job using tsc magic paint, mind you I live in New England were its battered by rocks and salt and I go 4 wheeling on the weekends and have not one spot of rust come through still looks like day I painted it. I was actually just T-boned in New orlens by an off duty cop in her cuzer while on a road trip last month crushed the side of my tub. Her crash bar hit my frame, frame crushed whole crash bar and front of cuzer but damned my frame paint is still in place just scuffed. It's wild stuff you just didn't Waite long enough before coating over it never really cured (curing and drying are two separate things) it and be dry not not cured I think it actually says on can after 24 hours or after being dry to touch Waite two weeks to top coat over. I have a full automotive paint shop in my mill and we do real paint jobs and that stuff holds up much much better to abuse than ppg 2 stage (at least on a frame).

Last edited by 1928Pickuppain; 03-28-2017 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 03-28-2017, 01:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: Paint warning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
I purchased a paint shaker from HF and lagged it to the concrete. I used it EVERY time I use the paint. Even if it's only been hours since I used it. Never a worry, and never any doubt about the paint being mixed.
Russ has the right idea. Buy a paint mixer and use it. The biggest money saver in my shop is my Devilblis (sp) paint mixer that i bought second hand for $75. With our automotive paint now costing from $150 to $500 a gallon, one has to make sure that the whole can is thoroughly mixed before using it, or else what ever is drawn out of the can will not be a color match to anything, and surely what is left in the can will not be a color match to anything else either. A good way to throw your hard earned money away is to not to completely mix your paint.
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Old 03-28-2017, 02:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Paint warning!

Where do you get off paying just $500 per gallon? I hear that a gallon of black, reducer and hardener will cost me a tad over $750 here in mid California.
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Old 03-28-2017, 02:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: Paint warning!

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Originally Posted by daveymc29 View Post
Where do you get off paying just $500 per gallon? I hear that a gallon of black, reducer and hardener will cost me a tad over $750 here in mid California.
$750 a gallon? I was only concerned with what was in the paint can of color. I wasn't counting the reducer, hardener or etc.. All the more reason to thoroughly mix your paint. Some of the just "colors" go well over $1,000 a gallon, but I doubt that very many of us would be using those exotic paints on our model A Fords.
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Old 03-28-2017, 03:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: Paint warning!

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveymc29 View Post
Where do you get off paying just $500 per gallon? I hear that a gallon of black, reducer and hardener will cost me a tad over $750 here in mid California.
Sounds about right 1 gt PPG DMC 921 - 1 gt of primer PPG DP 50LF - pint of catalyst and 8oz of hardner and gallon of reducer 1 year ago was $357.57 in Jackson ca . was unable to buy this type of paint in El Dorado County .
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Old 03-28-2017, 03:20 PM   #15
Keith True
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Default Re: Paint warning!

12 years ago I painted my roadster pickup with whatever was PPG's fleet line of single stage urethane.As an off the shelf fleet color it was much cheaper.It was called 48 Ford commercial red.I don't have to satisfy a customer of stand behind it,so I went for it.Also,I've really only painted equipment for the last 30+years,and have first hand experience of how it holds up.It cost me $130.for what came to 6 quarts of sprayable material.4 years ago I built a little Dodge dump truck,and found the leftover paint from the A.I used it,it behaved,and looks good.The A in the picture is much darker than it really is,and the Dodge is really a little brighter in the picture than it really is.
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Old 03-28-2017, 04:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: Paint warning!

I had a bad experience with TSC "Magic" paint also. I bought some Kubota orange to paint my tractor. Sprayed it over the original scuffed paint and automotive primer on the bare spots. The paint went on beautiful, but within 30 minutes of spraying their paint, it started to wrinkle and orange peel. I got everything sand blasted and started from bare metal. This time I used TSC "magic" primer also. The primer was so thick I had to use my rotary mixer in my drill to get it all mixed up. Even still, the final color wrinkled within minutes. I ended up blasting everything again and using Rust-o-leum tractor paint with no problems. I returned the TSC paint for a full refund.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:00 AM   #17
31 Woody
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Default Re: Paint warning!

@ Hardtimes,
It depends how the bedliner material is applied. If he rolled it on then a simple masking job is enough. If it is an industrial application like most pickup beds, the product dries in seconds. For that there is a very special masking tape that incorporates a piano wire on the edge to be pulled. That allows for a fine edge wherever you want it placed.

Or maybe I just didn't understand your question... ��
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: Paint warning!

Maybe not as easy for undercarriage coatings; but because of high humidity mainly in Spring and Fall, with lots of condensation coupled with a non-air-conditioned garage, FWIW:

Quite a few years back,I prepared and coated the undersides of my Model A Town Sedan fenders and running boards, brake backing plates, brake drums, brake rods, axles, and "entire" under carriage with (2) coats of POR 15 & (2) coats of POR Chassis Black, after providing all metal preparation in strict accordance with POR instructions.

In my opinion, after testing and trying to wear out similar POR coated metal on different metal surfaces with an electrical powered steel wire wheel, this POR 15 coating process is tougher than any paint or coating I have ever experienced.

Always looks like I coated everything yesterday ..... should last quite a few generations.

My other coupe chassis and parts that I coated 20 years ago still look new.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 03-29-2017 at 01:03 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:44 PM   #19
Terry, NJ
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Default Re: Paint warning!

H.L., A few years ago, I was pretty favorable to a company named "Magnet Paint" from Brooklyn , NY, Been around since 1916. They sell any quantity from one Gal cans to 55 gal drums. (Google Magnet Paints) They mostly sell to fleets and industrial uses. Anyway, they sell an item called "Chassis Saver"( $110 & gal a few years ago ) People who knew told me it was very similar to POR 15. BUT and I imagine this is the same with POR15, Once you open the can, you have to use it all because of it's affinity for oxygen. Does a great job, but I wasn't really ready to use it all and what was left in the can hardened up on me and therefore it was wasted. And when that stuff hardens, it gets hard. And you need to wear gloves, Any that gets on you skin has to wear off.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:43 PM   #20
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Paint warning!

Hi Terry,

Because POR 15 is so moisture sensitive, with our almost constant high humidity, I only buy POR 15 in small six (6) pack cans ...... never quarts or gallons.

Next, in our area, usually only brush apply POR 15 coatings when "monitored" relative humidity is lower, i.e., after 10:00 a.m., and before 4:00 p.m.

Then, I always pour 1/2 of a small can or less, in a paper cup, re-seal can with Saran Wrap, brush apply coating, then re-open can for second half or so of brush applied coating.

I made a graphic chart indicating recommended POR 15 drying times with respect to their recommended outside ambient temperature and limited relative humidity to insure successful coatings and re-coatings. If relative humidity is higher than recommended for POR 15 applications, I always add about 5% - 10% POR 15 thinner for smooth brush coatings.

I only buy POR Chassis Black final coatings in spray cans & again follow instructions.

POR 15 manufacture'rs technicians and salespersons will tell anyone the biggest failures associated with POR 15 products always occurs with highly professional painters who never try to read "all" POR 15 product preparation instructions; never try to read "all" POR 15 application instructions; clean greasy metal with materials like gasoline, (in lieu of their recommended Marine Clean), which fills metal pores with thin grease; finally apply POR 15 as if it is paint; then complain when it fails.

Common old fart painter's comment: "I've been painting for (50) years, nobody can tell me how to apply paint." But this is not paint .... it is a special coating.

Preparation for coating any vintage under carriage usually takes up about 90% of one's time; several newly applied coatings only takes about 10% of ones time.

From actual experience, if a proven product is successfully used, it can be done once within several generations.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 03-30-2017 at 12:55 AM. Reason: typo
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