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Old 01-19-2020, 07:47 AM   #1
GordonP
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Default Engine Machining

Can anybody recommend a machine shop in Southern California? I've got some burnt valves in my 29 Coupe and want to put inserts in the block. Probably hone the cylinders at the same time. Thanks
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:00 AM   #2
larrys40
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Default Re: Engine Machining

I would call Arlyn Bieber at Hansens Model A garage in San Diego. Aryln does engines and they are schooled at all the mechanicals. I'll update back here shortly with the correct phone number.....

Larry
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:11 PM   #3
tjh6x6@aol.com
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Default Re: Engine Machining

H&H Machine is in Southern Cal, significant Model A experience
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:45 PM   #4
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: Engine Machining

Wherever you decide to go check them out in the archives here and on HAMB. The "&" symbol confuses the search engine so if looking for a company with that in their name go to Google and search for "X&Y on HAMB" or "X&Y" on fordbarn. Please post your experience as I will be looking for something in the future.

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Old 01-19-2020, 02:37 PM   #5
Truckerjim
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Default Re: Engine Machining

I would go with Larrys pick as he has experience in this dept.
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:41 PM   #6
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Engine Machining

By "inserts" I hope you don't mean you want to install valve seats. I would only do that if it is REALLY needed to correct excess recess of the original seat.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:33 PM   #7
Bob C
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Default Re: Engine Machining

Here is an engine said to be from H&H.
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File Type: jpg image_32267.jpg (35.4 KB, 252 views)
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:10 PM   #8
johnneilson
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Default Re: Engine Machining

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Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
Here is an engine said to be from H&H.


Chances are if those two pictures go together, the second one caused the first.


It would be interesting to see the inside of the block, and at what RPM the motor was turning when it came apart.


Also would be interesting to see the details on the crank. From the picture it looks like a "B" crank with welded on counterweights and ground to "A" dimensions.


There was a place in Lancaster, Adams Metalizing. They have done sleeves for me, not sure if they do seats.


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Old 01-19-2020, 04:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by larrys40 View Post
I would call Arlyn Bieber at Hansens Model A garage in San Diego. Aryln does engines and they are schooled at all the mechanicals. I'll update back here shortly with the correct phone number.....

Larry
I tried googling Hansen's Model A Garage in San Diego and Arlyn Bieber. Maybe I'm missing it - -but I don't see the place you are recommending.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:48 PM   #10
GordonP
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Default Re: Engine Machining

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Originally Posted by tjh6x6@aol.com View Post
H&H Machine is in Southern Cal, significant Model A experience
I bought what turned out to be a H & H Engine at a swap meet about 10 years ago for $100. Turns out it had about 1/4" front to back play in the crank. Took it apart. They had machined away the trust bearing portion of the rear main rabbit, and installed a small split washer on the crank.

The small piece they had added as a thrust bearing had fallen off and ended up in the pan. I took it back to them and they wanted $250 to fix it (reinstall the thrust surface and turn the crank). I junked the engine.

They have changed this design in engines I now see at swap meets. New design looks better - -larger thrust area.

The pictures below don't surprise me.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Engine Machining

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Originally Posted by GordonP View Post
I tried googling Hansen's Model A Garage in San Diego and Arlyn Bieber. Maybe I'm missing it - -but I don't see the place you are recommending.
Arlyn is a member on here, you could reach out via PM

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/member.php?u=1451
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
By "inserts" I hope you don't mean you want to install valve seats. I would only do that if it is REALLY needed to correct excess recess of the original seat.
I'm rebuilding an engine that has a significantly burnt first cylinder exhaust valve, valve seat, and even the piston is burnt closest to the valve. I had the same problem on my own Model A years ago.

I'm told unleaded gas is tough of the exhaust valves because it burns hotter. I have no data to support this, but the new valves are stainless, and stainless inserts don't burn like the stock block does in my experience.

I have no idea why it's always been the first cylinder. Maybe leaner?
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Engine Machining

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Originally Posted by GordonP View Post
I'm told unleaded gas is tough of the exhaust valves because it burns hotter. I have no data to support this, but the new valves are stainless, and stainless inserts don't burn like the stock block does in my experience.
Rich Fallucca of Antique Engine Rebuilding in Skokie IL gave a lecture four years ago where he addressed this – basically said he'd never seen evidence to support the lead hypothesis, but he does put insert seats in his engines for other reasons. See clip here for lead:
https://youtu.be/N5kDrtTJGsU?t=3134

And here for valve seats: https://youtu.be/N5kDrtTJGsU?t=3375
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: Engine Machining

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonP View Post
I bought what turned out to be a H & H Engine at a swap meet about 10 years ago for $100. Turns out it had about 1/4" front to back play in the crank. Took it apart. They had machined away the trust bearing portion of the rear main rabbit, and installed a small split washer on the crank.

The small piece they had added as a thrust bearing had fallen off and ended up in the pan. I took it back to them and they wanted $250 to fix it (reinstall the thrust surface and turn the crank). I junked the engine.

They have changed this design in engines I now see at swap meets. New design looks better - -larger thrust area.

The pictures below don't surprise me.
There has very recently been a thread on another Ford forum about the engine pictured in an earlier post. Seems the issue is they use the middle main bearing for the thrust, something that will always end in failure, yet they won't learn according to the responses. I was at the repair tent at the National MAFCA meet in Reno a year or so ago and a chap there had an engine done by them. It had stripped the second timing gear in about 400 miles. A new one was fitted in the hope that he could get at least nearly home again to (I think) So Cal.
IMO, fitting hardened seats in a Model A engine should ONLY be done as a last resort. I've never done it and can't see that I ever will.
The OP is doing the right thing seeking advice before parting with his hard earned.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: Engine Machining

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
There has very recently been a thread on another Ford forum about the engine pictured in an earlier post. Seems the issue is they use the middle main bearing for the thrust, something that will always end in failure, yet they won't learn according to the responses. I was at the repair tent at the National MAFCA meet in Reno a year or so ago and a chap there had an engine done by them. It had stripped the second timing gear in about 400 miles. A new one was fitted in the hope that he could get at least nearly home again to (I think) So Cal.
IMO, fitting hardened seats in a Model A engine should ONLY be done as a last resort. I've never done it and can't see that I ever will.
The OP is doing the right thing seeking advice before parting with his hard earned.
If a hard seat comes out, it's the machinist fault, not the seats.

We are shooting a 100%, in 55 years.

Herm.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: Engine Machining

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If a hard seat comes out, it's the machinist fault, not the seats.

We are shooting a 100%, in 55 years.

Herm.
That's not a bad percentage and I can't argue with whose fault it might be but if I stick to the solid valve seat, I figure nothing can come adrift - ever.
BTW, I use a lead replacement in the fuel which doubles as an upper cylinder lubricant.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:57 AM   #17
larrys40
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Default Re: Engine Machining

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I would call Arlyn Bieber at Hansens Model A garage in San Diego. Aryln does engines and they are schooled at all the mechanicals. I'll update back here shortly with the correct phone number.....

Larry
I know Arlyn does Babbitt but I converses with him yesterday and he doesnít do inserts if thatís what you are wanting. If you want an annoyed engine I would call him. If you want an inserted engine you canít beat AERís pricing on short blocks with new inserted balanced rods . If you were planning on doing your own assembly if that was the plan I would still do the wise thing and go the short block route for inserts through AER it Babbitt from Hansenís (Arlyn)

Just my take
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:21 AM   #18
alexiskai
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Default Re: Engine Machining

There may be some terminology confusion here, I believe the OP wanted insert valve seats, not insert crankshaft bearings.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:21 PM   #19
Ray in La Mesa
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Default Re: Engine Machining

Hansens Garage 760-789-8296
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:06 PM   #20
Chuck Sea/Tac
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Default Re: Engine Machining

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Originally Posted by GordonP View Post
I'm rebuilding an engine that has a significantly burnt first cylinder exhaust valve, valve seat, and even the piston is burnt closest to the valve. I had the same problem on my own Model A years ago.

I'm told unleaded gas is tough of the exhaust valves because it burns hotter. I have no data to support this, but the new valves are stainless, and stainless inserts don't burn like the stock block does in my experience.

I have no idea why it's always been the first cylinder. Maybe leaner?
I would look for a intake manifold leak.
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