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03-28-2013, 08:21 PM | #1 |
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Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Hey guys, I've been around for awhile working on my 1936 pickup but this is my first venture into the Model A section...so go easy on me!
I was tracking down a lead on a replacement cab for my pickup. It looks better than mine so I made a deal with the guy. Then we get to talking about the other stuff he has for sale and a little bit about this cool old warehouse he has the parts and cars in. It turns out to be the leftovers from his dad's years of hoarding parts and cars and over the last year or so he and his mother have been selling off mostly everything. I thought it interesting he has several fiberglass bed sides and 3 fiberglass beds from the Chebby Cameo pickup. Anyway, as we are talking and I asked what other Ford stuff he has left he mentions a '29 Model A, and says its 'upstairs'. I say "Whatchu mean UPSTAIRS?" He showed me a cool old wooden elevator platform. It has a HUGE concrete counterweight and the whole thing is raised and lower manually with rope, pulley, and gears. So we go upstairs and find the car in the pictures below. My friend is looking for one of these and we'll be going back next week for him to look at it. Please take a look and offer your observations and opinions. Guy is asking $8000. The old story "it ran when dad parked it here". My friend wants to leave the outside "as-is" up to a point, but wants to get it running and driving. |
03-28-2013, 09:12 PM | #2 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Offer him $6500-6700 cash.
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03-28-2013, 09:17 PM | #3 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Great find!
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03-28-2013, 09:34 PM | #4 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
JTW
How did you ever come up with 6500 to 6700 cash without knowing anything about it ? That is amazing. Al |
03-28-2013, 09:50 PM | #5 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
I wish I could find my X -ray glasses I got from Bazooka bubble gum wrappers .
I could see inside barns and warehouses and find cars . Great find on all . |
03-29-2013, 01:26 AM | #6 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
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03-29-2013, 04:14 AM | #7 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Other than potential price, what do you guys see in the pictures? Does the engine look right? I think I can make out the generator and starter. It looks like the front seats have been re-done. The rear fender looks to have some surface rust on it, but I don't think its rotted through. Its gonna need some work on the roof..are those particularly challenging to do? I've reupholstered seats and replaced mid-60's headliners before so if its not any worse than that it would be great.
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03-29-2013, 07:13 AM | #8 | |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Quote:
Bottom line, for anyone that wants to drive it and use it to go places, then it will need a new top, some major interior upgrades, probably some mechanical renewal and new tires/tubes. IMO, it really does not matter whether the car is this nice or whether it is much worse, the amount of restoration work is about the same. By this I mean, it really does not matter whether the present brake drums are worn just slightly oversized and still have some black paint on them, --or whether the drums are rusty and have deep grooves worn in them. In my view they are worth the same amount as they are essentially cores that need restoration (i.e.: drums replaced). Look at the L/R fender. While it still has paint, it appears it has major issues in the bead area. Is it really any better than a swap meet fender that has surface rust all over it and a minor broken bead? The same mindset can be said for the engine. Even if this one runs but is worn out, --or whether it hasn't been started in years, the value placed on that engine should be the same. This is why I advise people not to get caught up in "patina" or by "barn find" looks. The reality is very few people listen to that advise and falsely convince themselves this car is better than one sitting out in a field. Again, in reality both type cars are needing a full restoration and the costs of the restoration are roughly the same. The downside is this car will likely be sold for more money simply because of the "packaging" (i.e.: the patina). We all know in the world of sales, ..."packaging" is everything!! . |
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03-29-2013, 07:15 AM | #9 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
The old saying "there only original once" certainly holds true for this car! Price is too much. You don't know what mechanical problems it has. Do your homework. Then make an offer.
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03-29-2013, 07:33 AM | #10 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Take someone knowledgable like a local Model A club member with you. In my mind there may well be many issues not yet seen or even envisioned. What have the mice done, how severe is the rust ? You buy with your brain and not your heart ! Read Brents post as he is a very knowledgable person that knows of what he speaks. It may well be worth 6500 but it also may well be worth 4500 ( in my mind more likely ).
Good luck ! Al |
03-29-2013, 08:12 AM | #11 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Scott,
If you have $8000 to spend, you can find a runner ... Take your time and look around .... Jim |
03-29-2013, 08:26 AM | #12 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
I would not be too hot to trot on this one either. Look at the side view photo. See the big gap at the bottom narrowing upward between the hood and fire wall? Bent frame? Don't go there. $3500, and only if there is no water in the pan. This car needs everything. It's still sitting there because it's WAY overpriced. Not trying to bust your bubble, just some friendly advice from a guy who's been there and done that.
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03-29-2013, 09:14 AM | #13 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
I agree with Mike. As soon as I saw the large hood gap and seats I knew this car was going to need a lot of restoration to be decent. Just based on these pictures I also had about the same price in mind as Mike posted. I've seen a few very nice Model A's in the past 3 years sell for $6000 to $8000, and they didn't need paint or upholstery.
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03-29-2013, 09:56 AM | #14 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
I wouldn't pay half the asking price for that tudor . It wouldn't bring much more than $8000 if it was a restored driver. I allways find lots of problems after I get one home that I didn't notice before buying. Fixing up model A's isn't necessarily cheap. You could easily spend another eight thousand or more to restore it and then if you decided to sell it, you would be lucky if it brought ten thousand.
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03-29-2013, 10:27 AM | #15 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
The car looks like a lot of fun but would need to be looked over really close. It is in a nice dry location now but in its past it has seen some serious moisture. That being said, with a homemade interior, a new roof, new tires, and some elbow grease you probably could have a really fun "around the neighborhood" car. Price is too high though. If it is what it looks like in the pics and runs OK with no major knocks, etc, maybe $5K tops? Really hard to say with just pics. With just the apparent parts/materials you will need it will run you well over $1000. If your looking for a fun project though, this definitely does look fun!
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03-29-2013, 12:15 PM | #16 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Well admittedly I should have known better. I bought a decent driver for $8000 just 11 years ago. I put another 8 grand in it and it still needs new glass,body and paint. I would be lucky to get $10,000 out of it. It is reliable as all hell and I have no regrets..........just sayin.
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03-29-2013, 12:39 PM | #17 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
So reading all these armchair appraisals, is it fair to say this Tudor will likely bring much more than what an educated buyer should pay??
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03-29-2013, 12:43 PM | #18 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Brent Just a repeat of history ! Happens every day ! Many of us made comments whereas you provided sound rationale !
I guess that is one of the reasons I consider you to be the most knowledgable person on the Fordbarn site ! Regards, Al |
03-29-2013, 01:24 PM | #19 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Brent,I think that car will bring more than it should.One reason is that if a family man is looking for a toy,that car looks somewhat presentable to a wife.A car in a box,in 10 times the condition won't even get a second look,much less an OK by most wives.Some wives can be bought by the argument that it can be driven while I fix it up Location will have a lot to do with it too.Where I am that car would bring $8000.if it is what it looks to be.You would have to wade through 100 cheapskates and lowbawlers,but unless it is a desperate sale one buyer will come through.Very good chance it would be a street rodder here.They seem to have no problem stepping up to the plate.I had a 29 coupe barn car,rock solid,would need everything but rust and dent repair.Best offer from the A guys was $3500.A rodder bought it for over $8000.Steve Cicalonne once asked me why I kept fooling around with British bikes.He had restored a lot of bikes,and said the brit bike guys made the Model A guys look like drunken spenders.He said they were the cheapest A-holes in the world.When they got done subtracting for everything they wanted to redo you would have to pay them to haul it off.He was right,but I've been dealing with them all my life.With the internet I've run into a whole new crop of people.Just dozens of people that make offers sight unseen,insulting lowball offers for five cents on the dollar,and people telling me how bad the economy is so I should be giving my junk away.What I've had to do is just set a price,and that is it.I make it clear that if they want it that is the bottom dollar.I tell everyone that before they come over.I've sold things all my life,but some feel there is no difference between dickering and insulting.When I get folks tell me that they never pay the asking price,I just tell them don't waste their trip.I'm polite about it,but my price is my price.It has worked out very well,I should have done it years ago.
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03-29-2013, 01:30 PM | #20 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Tudors are as common as Small block GM V8's. I wouldn't pay more than $2000 for a car like this. It needs everything. As has been said here before...you can get a runner with fair upholstery and good paint for 6-8 grand.
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03-29-2013, 01:31 PM | #21 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
A nice tudor driver in my area (Northern California) will go for between 8-12,000. It looks to me like you will spend at least $2-4,000 to bring the car to a nice driver. I might add that there could be much more than $4,000 spent should issues arise which I can not see from the pictures. There are too many unknowns based on what I can see from the pictures. I would keep looking for a car in better condition or offer a lot less money for this car.
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03-29-2013, 02:44 PM | #22 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Wonderful responses so far, and for the most part I agree with most of them.
My friend and I are going to look at it next Wednesday. I've seen about 1/2 dozen cars as restorable drivers that are asking about the same, more than $5k but less than $10k. Location is part of it, not having to fly somewhere to do an inspection and then either rent a trailer or pay a shipper to haul it home. All those things add to the cost, and can make a hometown car much more appealing. He is definitely dealing with the wife factor..she isn't gonna want a bunch of boxes of parts and a dream of someday it will be on the road. If it can be made into a driver for under $1k so much the better. Any further comments or suggestions, please keep them coming! Learning lots so far. |
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03-29-2013, 03:38 PM | #23 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
It's just a worn out car that needs every thing. I say 4,000 max. It does look solid.
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03-29-2013, 04:56 PM | #24 | |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Quote:
From my own personal experiences, and those from whom have been in similar situations, that car will look its best where it is right now. While you will be proud when it is in your driveway, that car likely isn't going to be an inexpensive fix. Best wishes to you in whichever direction you go!! |
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03-29-2013, 05:06 PM | #25 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
I would say 2,000-3,000. I know some would say that's ripping the guy off. But if you are going to restore it. Do it right and go through the whole car. And it's not like they are hard to find. Leave yourself a lot of room on the car.
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03-29-2013, 05:25 PM | #26 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
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03-29-2013, 05:43 PM | #27 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
no price thoughts , but would be curious how much mouse damage !
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03-29-2013, 05:51 PM | #28 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Some interesting comments . I like the idea of taking an experienced person with you ...pay him for his time and expertise , it might be the best money you will spend .
T |
03-29-2013, 06:06 PM | #29 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
the one good thing I see in the photos is the absence of rust-through in the usual cowl & door locations.
even in the unlikely event that the engine is a good runner, figure $1000 or more for brakes, then $500 minimum each for steering and cooling systems. then a set of new BLACKWALL tires, rebuild of carb, distributor and water pump + maybe generator. you have already dumped a pile of cash in it without starting on the roof/wood situation or how much rubbish is in the gas tank. if you want an $8000 driver, this pup is clearly not it. $4000 might be fair or it might be way too much, you will not know until it's too late. agree with Keith, for $8K a street rodder is the likely buyer..........
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03-29-2013, 06:46 PM | #30 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
For a Tudor that's a lot of money in my opinion.. $4,000 to me would be a good price in. If it was a Roadster, Coupe or other you would be paying more. The good news is that it doesn't look like it was molested by someone before hand and looks like it was stored properly.
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03-29-2013, 07:32 PM | #31 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
I'm not saying the car is worth it,just what I know it would bring here,where I am.In other parts of the country that may be high or low.If you open the door and find gummed together subrails or solid fudge body panels that would be a different story.We have an infestation of street rodders here that outbid each other when looking for projects so they really have been setting the prices.There are always some that try to say they only want the body,and try to buy just the parts they want.Some people try to chisel me down by telling me everything it needs,but I just say that's the price,needing whatever it needs.I never hover around people looking at things either.I point them at it,tell them I will try and answer any questions,and walk off.They can take their time,poke around,think,discuss amongst themselves,and talk themselves either into it or out of it.Sometimes I tell people if I don't sell it in a few years I will drop the price.There have not been any A's around here in that shape for $4000.in years.There will always be the rare score,but it is just that,rare.
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03-29-2013, 07:41 PM | #32 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
I am definately with George on the 4k tops, make an offer of $2500 and start from there. Rod
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03-29-2013, 07:52 PM | #33 | |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Quote:
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03-29-2013, 08:09 PM | #34 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
I very rarely get into these threads, while I read and learn every day from the Ford Barn. I was in a similar situation about 4 years ago and wasn't smart or knowledgable enough to find this forum until after I bought my 1930 CCPU. I paid $7500 for a car that had "been" mechanically restored, just need body work meaning paint.
I had no idea what the cost of the body work and paint would run to, and I think I got a deal from friend of a friend. I got the truck back last summer, and it looks great. Then I got around to the mechanical side and the "mechanically restored" part was a joke. The brakes seemed fine with lots of pedal pressure. It would stop fine rolling out of the garage, but when under power I almost ran it into the lake as the pressure was fine, but because the linkage was rusted tight! The "parking" brake had pressure, but turned it not shoes and no help stopping. I've been reading religiously on the forum, joined a local club, and have been gong through everything mechanically this winter. I put about 5 miles on the truck before starting over last fall. The engine and drive train seem like they were rebuilt, but I won't know until I can get it on the road this summer and see what works and what doesn't. The learning has been great, and I need something to keep me out of the wife's hair. However, if you think this is going to be a great investment I think you'll have way more money in it than you expect. In hind sight, I would have had someone more knowledgeable help me and bought a drive that I could have enjoyed while I worked on the cosmetics. I guess it just gets down to why your friend want go buy it. Probably not a good investment decision, but if he wants a project that's probably what he's going to get. Sorry for "rambling".
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03-29-2013, 09:02 PM | #35 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
If my friend Brian decides to jump on this one it would only be if he can get a reasonable price on it.
He's been reading this thread and taking all your suggestions and comments to heart. He already has a show car, now he wants one just for driving. Then, if he gets it home, we can work on it together. He won't be paying a shop to do tune it or work on the brakes, I can do all that. I can rebuild the carb if it needs it. I can do the differential if it needs it. Left axle.jpg P3030011.jpg I have a spare battery he can use. I have a set of 4 blackwalls brand new I decided not to use on another car so he could get those at a reasonable cost. If the trans needs rebuilding I'm sure I can handle that, here's some pics of the last one I did: P1010002.jpg P1010005.jpg P1010004 (2).jpg P1010003 (2).jpg He's just starting the serious search after looking for a few years. I'm sure he'll take his time and if this isn't the right car he'll pass on it. I hope to post updates next Wednesday or Thursday! |
03-29-2013, 09:21 PM | #36 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Good luck! What I see, when I view your pictures, is more work and money to make it a good driver, than the car is worth. Now, if he can get the price down to a low price, then he might break even. A tudor is a very common Model A, and not worth top dollar. Look real close at the condition of the wood in the body. If it will not hold a nail, then there is a lot of cost, and work, to replace the wood. Paint, brakes, engine, body work, all add up to a lot of $$$$.
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03-30-2013, 12:47 AM | #37 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
A buddy bought a very Nicely older restored tudor that ran and drove very well for 7,300 recently. It had been for sale for awhile at $8,500 obo. It has 1200 miles since restoration in the late 70's, stored inside since. It was started and driven short distances regularly. He drove it home.
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03-30-2013, 01:38 AM | #38 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Personally I'd be more interested in the asking price on the Cameo Pick up beds and sides, they may be the money makers. Bob
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03-30-2013, 02:35 AM | #39 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Hey Scot,
Wow, everyone needs a buddy like you ! Brian could buy the car and have you rebuild it...at your house, that way his wife won't know,eh ! You sound like the 'friend' that I'd take with me..if I were checking out this car to buy. I have one GOOD suggestion to add to all the price speculation/suggestions.....take the wife with Brian when he goes to examine this car...seriously! Have her read this thread also..prior to going. Women have an uncanny sense of worth after examining this input and then seeing the evidence/car in person. BTW IMO, it looks like (expect) a full resto will be needed which equals...big $ and hours to match. Caveat emptor ! Good luck ! |
03-30-2013, 03:21 AM | #40 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Keep this in mind, no restored model A sold will ever get you your money back. If this A was free it would cost more to restore then what you can get out of it to have it painted and interior done and new tires would be almost 7 grand.
Now with that said what is it worth to you? I do not calculate the time I put into working on my car because I would just be doing something else that costs money. I enjoy working on the car and my sons car that is priceless, I help others work on there car for not much more than lunch. I can spend my money on ammo, movies, drink etc and get nothing back on what was spent so why should working on a model A be so different. Couple grand could do you, there are stories all the time about engines that have sat for years and when started work fine. If you think you are going to flip it for a profit, don't go back! It looks by the pictures to be a solid car, but Gibbs on the body to keep it from rusting further, a new roof kit and a couple or horse blankets and your may me good to go. To recap if you think like a businessman and how much can it be sold for when I'm done, don't pick a Model A! If you think like a person that would love to get his hands diirty, meet new friends ad have a ball doing so buy the car. My Fordor is nearly priceless offer me 6 figures and you can have it so I can do another.
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03-30-2013, 07:42 AM | #41 | |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
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I appreciate ALL the input and feedback, the more eyes on a project the more things we can spot to ask questions about or to look into further! Last edited by Scott H in Wheaton; 03-30-2013 at 08:10 AM. |
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03-30-2013, 07:44 AM | #42 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
What it boils down to is what its worth to YOU. Model A's are a poor investment if you're looking to sell it down the road or if you want bragging rights on how little you needed to spend to get a nice driving car. Trust me in this - The other guy will have ALWAYS spent much less than you trying to acheive his goal. There are hot rodders out there that see a nice body that doesn't need many hours of metalworking to have something useful and will pay a much higher premium than a model A purist who is going to want it restored to a drivable car with decent paint and a refreshed interior.
I inherited my coupe which had been painted and upholstered in the early 90's but mechanically it was a MESS. I've spent probably 5K on it already and I still need to rebuild the engine - so yes I will have done EVERYTHING mechanical BUT body work and paint. The paint and interior isn't correct and not quite to my standards either so one day (probably a ways into the future) I will address that too. I paid nothing for the car and when I"m all through I could have bought a nice one and driven it right away for possibly less but you know what? That wouldn't have been my grandfathers car. Even if I had started with a car I had no family connection to its a labor of love getting them going again, To me it feels honorable to save them from the boneyard or a hot rodder who might wreck half of it with a sawzall and sell the other half at a swap meet before he runs out of money or interest. Think of all the cars that were saved because people paid too much for but had the tenacity to actually restore them anyway and keep going, at what would have been a big loss vs. buying a nice one in the first place. We'd have a lot fewer Model A's left if it wasn't for that type of ignorance. Or Stubbornness!! Just remember semi common classic cars WILL cost you money either way and are a terrible monetary investment. The payoff is how big of a grin you get driving it, fixing it, showing etc. Last edited by montanafordman; 03-30-2013 at 07:52 AM. |
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03-30-2013, 09:47 AM | #43 |
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
The whole trouble, of course, is that these kind of decisions rarily involve logic! I'd say he'll get his $8K, and the guy that takes it home will be giddy with excitement... for about 2 weeks. However, it still will be a pile of fun and in the end, the owner will end up with a really neat car and lots of "knowledge" from the school of hard knocks.
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03-30-2013, 10:18 AM | #44 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Owosso, MI
Posts: 673
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
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1929 Model A Barn find. California car, just a few more parts to find. Interior, steering box (rebuild), and I am sure much more! |
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03-30-2013, 10:22 AM | #45 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
Agree with most of the comments but at least get them down to a more realistic price. You can't pay the moon for this thing because someone thinks they have a pile of gold. If a rodder is willing to pay good for them and move on. Plenty of cars around contact your model A clubs usually someone knows of a car
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03-31-2013, 08:56 AM | #46 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 702
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
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04-03-2013, 08:45 PM | #47 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Wheaton, IL near Chicago
Posts: 861
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Re: Found in a Grain Warehouse Attic
We went and looked at the car today and took more pictures and did a more thorough examination. The seller re-stated that the car was running 1 year ago.
At this point his best price is $7000, and that is more than we would be willing to pay, so for now its still in his grain warehouse. Further research has shown a fair number of completed Ebay auctions for SOLD nice cars in the $11k - $12k range, and a whole bunch of "body only" or dis-assembled project cars in the $3k - $5k range. The search continues! As a side note, I found it interesting how many posts on this thread said the car was probably only worth a few thousand, however I have a hunch if this was in their garage and for sale those same posters would be asking $6k - $7k |
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