The Ford Barn

chap52 · 03-25-2017, 04:52 PM

52 F-1, 3-speed.
A few weeks ago I had a TO Bearing start “sounding off” when the pedal was depressed. Pulled trans and went ahead and replaced the pilot bearing, clutch, pressure plate and release bearing (all from Mac VanPelt). I also noticed release bearing hub had uneven wear and replaced that as well as the spring that holds it in place.
Here’s the dilemma, the clutch will not fully disengage Had to shut off engine and start in 1st gear because it would just grind when I tried to put it in gear. Weird part is that if I start it in gear the truck does not seem to try and creep ahead?
Max out adjustment on clutch pedal release arm and still have 4+ inches of free play in clutch pedal. Pulled transmission today thinking that maybe the pin holding the release bearing fork had sheared/bent. Does not appear to be damaged.
Would appreciate some help figuring this adventure out. Thanks!

V8COOPMAN · 03-25-2017, 04:55 PM

With 4+ inches of free play in the pedal, it sounds like you may have adjusted in the wrong direction. It will NEVER disengage with that much free play. DD

chap52 · 03-25-2017, 05:32 PM

Thanks DD, Shortening the adjustment rod did not correct the free play issue??? I have tried it both as long and as short as I could get it. I just want to make sure that it is not a parts issue before I re-install the tranny. Good news is that I am getting really proficient at it.

AnthonyG · 03-25-2017, 05:49 PM

Chap, I haven't been inside mine in 3 or 4 years but seem to remember the TO bearing can be installed 180 out and have the opposite face against the PP which might put it further away from the PP. If your opened up not hard to check.

AnthonyG · 03-25-2017, 05:56 PM

Forget that, just went and checked the old TO bearing and it's unique One side to the otherand pretty obvious with the spring hook which way it goes. Must have been thinking of one of my other newer toys. Sorry about that.

chap52 · 03-25-2017, 05:56 PM

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The larger side is towards pressure plate assy.. I believe that is the correct way??

AnthonyG · 03-25-2017, 06:03 PM

Did you compare the two PP's? Possible different dimension from the engage face to the back of the spring diaphragm or Arms depending on style? Did you disassemble the clutch linkage?

cmbrucew · 03-25-2017, 06:09 PM

Clutch disk in backwards?
Bruce

chap52 · 03-25-2017, 06:21 PM

Both PP's appeared to be the same and the clutch is in with the snout facing the PP.

Ross F-1 · 03-25-2017, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chap52

The larger side is towards pressure plate assy.. I believe that is the correct way??

The springs and the longer piece of hub should be pointing to the rear (to trans).

Can you look thru the inspection hole and see that the disc is being released?

What does MacVP sell for pressure plates? Are they rebuilt or new? Chinese?

fordwife · 03-25-2017, 06:33 PM

Before you assembled everything, did you check to see that the disc would slide freely on the splines?

chap52 · 03-25-2017, 07:00 PM

Trans is currently on my work bench. With the symptoms I described I assume that it is not releasing, but will take a peek when I put it back in. Pressure plate is "New", not sure of Nationality.
No problem sliding on splines.
If need be I will tear it all down and start with step one of reassembling.

40cpe · 03-25-2017, 07:07 PM

There have been problems in the past with the disc being thicker than specs. This puts the release arms lower than they should be. Mac should be aware of that, though.

AnthonyG · 03-25-2017, 07:32 PM

Based on you indicating " snout facing the PP." and based on what Ross said "The springs and the longer piece of hub should be pointing to the rear (to trans). " assuming your calling the snout the longer end of the hub, sounds like the clutch plate might be in backwards?

chap52 · 03-25-2017, 07:38 PM

The longer end (snout) is facing the PP/Trans.

Really appreciate all the responses...Thanks

1931flathead · 03-25-2017, 07:40 PM

this side to the transmission

chap52 · 03-25-2017, 08:19 PM

It is as you said. Thanks for the pic.

I also have a PM to Mac advising him of the problem.

Binx · 03-25-2017, 09:35 PM

I.D. of pilot may be too snug and spinning the shaft. It will probably wear in soon.

Lonnie

AnthonyG · 03-25-2017, 10:16 PM

Chap just thinking out loud here. Here's the puzzling thing. The full stroke of the pedal including the 3/4" to 1" of free play is 5" to 6". The actual movement at T bearing is approx 9/16" to 5/8" to disingage. So the entire pedal stroke of approx 6" only moves th At bearing at most approx 5/8" of travel. My point is it should be impossible to have 4" of free play. Unless the fingers on the pressure plate are closer to the flywheel by another 9/16" to 5/8" which would explain the extra 4" free play you describe.

chap52 · 03-26-2017, 02:19 AM

Anthony, Thanks for the numbers. I don't get it either. I am going to have to pull the PP and clutch and see if there are any clues to what is going on along the way. I may have messed something up with the PP when after initial assembly I took it on about a two mile test drive( had shifting issues then) before I discovered that the release bearing hub was unevenly worn. That's when I replaced it and the first new bearing just in case it was damaged.
I have total confidence in the parts I got from VanPelt's and figure I did something to mess things up. Praying that total disassembly will disclose the gremlin. Thanks!

Binx, new pilot is a roller bearing and not a bushing.

03-25-2017, 04:52 PM	#1
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	New clutch wo't disengage 52 F-1, 3-speed. A few weeks ago I had a TO Bearing start “sounding off” when the pedal was depressed. Pulled trans and went ahead and replaced the pilot bearing, clutch, pressure plate and release bearing (all from Mac VanPelt). I also noticed release bearing hub had uneven wear and replaced that as well as the spring that holds it in place. Here’s the dilemma, the clutch will not fully disengage Had to shut off engine and start in 1st gear because it would just grind when I tried to put it in gear. Weird part is that if I start it in gear the truck does not seem to try and creep ahead? Max out adjustment on clutch pedal release arm and still have 4+ inches of free play in clutch pedal. Pulled transmission today thinking that maybe the pin holding the release bearing fork had sheared/bent. Does not appear to be damaged. Would appreciate some help figuring this adventure out. Thanks!

03-25-2017, 04:55 PM	#2
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,107	Re: New clutch wo't disengage With 4+ inches of free play in the pedal, it sounds like you may have adjusted in the wrong direction. It will NEVER disengage with that much free play. DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

03-25-2017, 05:32 PM	#3
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Thanks DD, Shortening the adjustment rod did not correct the free play issue??? I have tried it both as long and as short as I could get it. I just want to make sure that it is not a parts issue before I re-install the tranny. Good news is that I am getting really proficient at it.

03-25-2017, 05:49 PM	#4
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,166	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Chap, I haven't been inside mine in 3 or 4 years but seem to remember the TO bearing can be installed 180 out and have the opposite face against the PP which might put it further away from the PP. If your opened up not hard to check. __________________ Nomad

03-25-2017, 05:56 PM	#5
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,166	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Forget that, just went and checked the old TO bearing and it's unique One side to the otherand pretty obvious with the spring hook which way it goes. Must have been thinking of one of my other newer toys. Sorry about that. __________________ Nomad

03-25-2017, 05:56 PM	#6
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The larger side is towards pressure plate assy.. I believe that is the correct way??

03-25-2017, 06:03 PM	#7
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,166	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Did you compare the two PP's? Possible different dimension from the engage face to the back of the spring diaphragm or Arms depending on style? Did you disassemble the clutch linkage? __________________ Nomad

03-25-2017, 06:09 PM	#8
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Clutch disk in backwards? Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

03-25-2017, 06:21 PM	#9
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Both PP's appeared to be the same and the clutch is in with the snout facing the PP.

03-25-2017, 06:33 PM	#11
fordwife Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 287	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Before you assembled everything, did you check to see that the disc would slide freely on the splines?

03-25-2017, 07:00 PM	#12
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Trans is currently on my work bench. With the symptoms I described I assume that it is not releasing, but will take a peek when I put it back in. Pressure plate is "New", not sure of Nationality. No problem sliding on splines. If need be I will tear it all down and start with step one of reassembling.

03-25-2017, 07:07 PM	#13
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: New clutch wo't disengage There have been problems in the past with the disc being thicker than specs. This puts the release arms lower than they should be. Mac should be aware of that, though.

03-25-2017, 07:32 PM	#14
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,166	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Based on you indicating " snout facing the PP." and based on what Ross said "The springs and the longer piece of hub should be pointing to the rear (to trans). " assuming your calling the snout the longer end of the hub, sounds like the clutch plate might be in backwards? __________________ Nomad

03-25-2017, 07:38 PM	#15
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: New clutch wo't disengage The longer end (snout) is facing the PP/Trans. Really appreciate all the responses...Thanks

03-25-2017, 08:19 PM	#17
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: New clutch wo't disengage It is as you said. Thanks for the pic. I also have a PM to Mac advising him of the problem.

03-25-2017, 09:35 PM	#18
Binx Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Gloucester VA Posts: 1,042	Re: New clutch wo't disengage I.D. of pilot may be too snug and spinning the shaft. It will probably wear in soon. Lonnie

03-25-2017, 10:16 PM	#19
AnthonyG Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,166	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Chap just thinking out loud here. Here's the puzzling thing. The full stroke of the pedal including the 3/4" to 1" of free play is 5" to 6". The actual movement at T bearing is approx 9/16" to 5/8" to disingage. So the entire pedal stroke of approx 6" only moves th At bearing at most approx 5/8" of travel. My point is it should be impossible to have 4" of free play. Unless the fingers on the pressure plate are closer to the flywheel by another 9/16" to 5/8" which would explain the extra 4" free play you describe. __________________ Nomad

03-26-2017, 02:19 AM	#20
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: New clutch wo't disengage Anthony, Thanks for the numbers. I don't get it either. I am going to have to pull the PP and clutch and see if there are any clues to what is going on along the way. I may have messed something up with the PP when after initial assembly I took it on about a two mile test drive( had shifting issues then) before I discovered that the release bearing hub was unevenly worn. That's when I replaced it and the first new bearing just in case it was damaged. I have total confidence in the parts I got from VanPelt's and figure I did something to mess things up. Praying that total disassembly will disclose the gremlin. Thanks! Binx, new pilot is a roller bearing and not a bushing.