The Ford Barn

Nosetime · 11-08-2017, 06:21 PM

Greeting gentleman. With a lot of help and advice here I got my unknown history 29 engine running great a few months back. Did all the mandated stuff, and was so very lucky to find what appeared to be a good motor. Compression was 65 psi. Pulled the head, after great difficulty to find all the passages packed by mice or some other outside agency. A few broken head studs. Found what appears to be fresh .60 over pistons with no ridge in bore, so far so good. Crank pulley was really loose and wobbly. After pulling engine I found old brazing work on an original pulley shaft, but after getting it off found a nice looking crank gear and timing gear! Had similar looking braze work on oil pump shaft. Have not speced with plastigauge, but I think I have a fresh rebuilt motor that was put away many years ago! Blown head gasket and the expected stuff from a motor not attended to for over 20 years. Clutch and PS plate look good. I am really excited to spec bottom end and go forward. Plan is B distributor, gear cover( which I have) and new drive, new oil pump, crank pulley, High Compression head, downdraft manifold and stromberg or strombergs depending on manifold... looking for vintage or period correct parts. At this point should I look at doing the Cam?

1930artdeco · 11-08-2017, 06:42 PM

Get a 'B' grind at the least for a hi comp head. You might as well change it out as long as you are there.

Mike

lindy williams · 11-08-2017, 07:04 PM

those two piece timing gears do not last. Get rid of it now before you install the engine. I'm sure others have had similar bad experience with them as I have had.

700rpm · 11-08-2017, 07:45 PM

The timing gear in your photo looks out of correct position by one tooth.

redmodelt · 11-08-2017, 08:02 PM

I 2ed replacing the 2 piece cam gear while the engine is out. They are know for coming apart and it's a lot more work to do in the car then out. Good eye Ray, does look one tooth off. Maybe that's why it's in good shape, they could not get it to run right.

Nosetime · 11-08-2017, 08:53 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Thanks, both of those are a concern and will absolutley be looking at it as I move forward.

James Rogers · 11-09-2017, 06:37 AM

If this engine was run any at all and put up to rest for several years, I would take out the crank and make sure the oil feed tubes are clear. I get lots of engines in that fail with new parts that are removed from storage where the oil left in the engine turns to hard blockages when it dries out,

Just a little food for thought that might save you a rebuild of a good motor.

I also believe the timing is off by one tooth.

zzlegend · 11-09-2017, 08:13 AM

When I had mine torn down like you, I installed an aluminum cam gear, and a Bill Stipe 330 cam, and adjustable lifters. A cam and a head really wake those motors up. Just my 2 1/2 cents. Good luck with it.

Nosetime · 11-09-2017, 08:25 AM

Thanks James. We did discuss that probability and will consider that. Ran out of time last night and will get back out there on saturday. I have not done my home work yet, but just assumed the dimple on crank and timing gear should line up at TDC no. 1? I had not really looked too close, but believe you guys are right. If so, why did it run so well timed correctly? Any reason someone would do that intentionally or just bad assembly? ZZ, when I get this apart I will get in touch with you this weekend, seems you have already done everything I'm looking at! Thanks, Greg

Nosetime · 11-09-2017, 08:33 AM

Sorry, one more thing. When i originally pulled the pan there was about a 1/4" of light sludge. Nothing like some of the pictures of other mothballed motors I have seen. Only reason I mention it is that would indicate to me it had not sat as long as previous owner thought?....there were a couple of owners who did not try to run it before I bought it.

Tom Wesenberg · 11-09-2017, 12:20 PM

If you get another one of those bad two piece cam gears, they make nice rear tractor wheels for a toy tractor, or desk display.

Nosetime · 11-09-2017, 12:32 PM

Ha ha thanks Tom! It will go to trash can

Tom Wesenberg · 11-09-2017, 12:53 PM

I hate to see anything like that thrown away because many people make art objects from old parts. Someone made a nice lawn chair out of junk Model A wheels.

James Rogers · 11-09-2017, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosetime

Thanks James. We did discuss that probability and will consider that. Ran out of time last night and will get back out there on saturday. I have not done my home work yet, but just assumed the dimple on crank and timing gear should line up at TDC no. 1? I had not really looked too close, but believe you guys are right. If so, why did it run so well timed correctly? Any reason someone would do that intentionally or just bad assembly? ZZ, when I get this apart I will get in touch with you this weekend, seems you have already done everything I'm looking at! Thanks, Greg

I looked again and the marks are definitely wrong and, they will never line up at TDC. The piston should be down about 1" when the marks align and the valves are open on #1.

johnneilson · 11-10-2017, 09:52 AM

That looks like a "B" block, if so, be very careful pulling those studs out.
You do not want to have to use an insert in that deck.
If HC head, definitely do the cam, you may want a little hotter than a stock "B".
Also, adjustable lifters, not single lock style unless you like adjusting.
Recommend having flywheel lightened and change to V8 clutch, very noticeable for driving.
Yep, cam timing is off one tooth in pic, no worries, you will get it right when back together.
You may want to contact Jim Brierley and get his book(s), best use of a $20 bill I have found.

Enjoy the Hobby, John

foxfire42 · 11-10-2017, 10:17 AM

In picture number 4 I think I can see an oil return pipe so not likely it's a B block.

johnneilson · 11-10-2017, 11:03 AM

could be right, I see that also now.

I was looking at the deck pic and the main bolts look pretty far apart.

John

redmodelt · 11-10-2017, 11:28 AM

Re I have not done my home work yet, but just assumed the dimple on crank and timing gear should line up at TDC no. 1?
No, you line up the dimple on the cam gear with the mark on crank gear to get everything in proper mesh only, that is not TDC. When the dimple lines up with the timing pin on the cover, that will be TDC for one of 2 cycles (compression or exhaust).

Nosetime · 11-10-2017, 11:32 AM

Thanks to everyone. Serial number dates block to 29, but who knows what its been through. I emailed Jim Brierly and bought a copy of his book today. Funny how the best laid plans go... I initially thought I might just check mains and rods, throw on a timing gear and crank pulley and be done. New plan is to be patient and not have regrets later. John, I am very interested in the flywheel/clutch sugguestion. I do remember we used to lighten the Flywheels and 8 pin them on VW motors and what a difference. I need more info on how that affects low end torque on the A's...not looking to build a high rev motor, but perk it up a bit and keep the RPM's down for longevity. As far as cam goes, I do not want to completely disassemble engine and do any machine work. Is it possible to change cam and lifters without doing so? I have adjustable lifters, but have not really looked to see what I have yet. Will post some pics this weekend. Thanks again to all!

Nosetime · 11-11-2017, 06:25 PM

Thanks to Mark, ZZlegend for the encouragement and advice! I did also edit my last post with more info re: flywheel and clutch if you might scroll up and advise. I had intended to post some pics of bearings, but need a damn 19/32 socket...nothing I have comes close. Lucky for me, in the morning is Long Beach Hi Po swap meet and there I have I found all my weird Model A tools.

11-08-2017, 06:42 PM	#2
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,550	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Get a 'B' grind at the least for a hi comp head. You might as well change it out as long as you are there. Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

11-08-2017, 07:04 PM	#3
lindy williams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 335	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine those two piece timing gears do not last. Get rid of it now before you install the engine. I'm sure others have had similar bad experience with them as I have had.

11-08-2017, 07:45 PM	#4
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,902	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine The timing gear in your photo looks out of correct position by one tooth. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

11-08-2017, 08:02 PM	#5
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine I 2ed replacing the 2 piece cam gear while the engine is out. They are know for coming apart and it's a lot more work to do in the car then out. Good eye Ray, does look one tooth off. Maybe that's why it's in good shape, they could not get it to run right. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

11-08-2017, 08:53 PM	#6
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks, both of those are a concern and will absolutley be looking at it as I move forward.

11-09-2017, 06:37 AM	#7
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine If this engine was run any at all and put up to rest for several years, I would take out the crank and make sure the oil feed tubes are clear. I get lots of engines in that fail with new parts that are removed from storage where the oil left in the engine turns to hard blockages when it dries out, Just a little food for thought that might save you a rebuild of a good motor. I also believe the timing is off by one tooth. __________________ http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/

11-09-2017, 08:13 AM	#8
zzlegend Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Reseda, Calif. Posts: 2,188	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine When I had mine torn down like you, I installed an aluminum cam gear, and a Bill Stipe 330 cam, and adjustable lifters. A cam and a head really wake those motors up. Just my 2 1/2 cents. Good luck with it.

11-09-2017, 08:25 AM	#9
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Thanks James. We did discuss that probability and will consider that. Ran out of time last night and will get back out there on saturday. I have not done my home work yet, but just assumed the dimple on crank and timing gear should line up at TDC no. 1? I had not really looked too close, but believe you guys are right. If so, why did it run so well timed correctly? Any reason someone would do that intentionally or just bad assembly? ZZ, when I get this apart I will get in touch with you this weekend, seems you have already done everything I'm looking at! Thanks, Greg

11-09-2017, 08:33 AM	#10
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Sorry, one more thing. When i originally pulled the pan there was about a 1/4" of light sludge. Nothing like some of the pictures of other mothballed motors I have seen. Only reason I mention it is that would indicate to me it had not sat as long as previous owner thought?....there were a couple of owners who did not try to run it before I bought it.

11-09-2017, 12:20 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine If you get another one of those bad two piece cam gears, they make nice rear tractor wheels for a toy tractor, or desk display.

11-09-2017, 12:32 PM	#12
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Ha ha thanks Tom! It will go to trash can

11-09-2017, 12:53 PM	#13
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine I hate to see anything like that thrown away because many people make art objects from old parts. Someone made a nice lawn chair out of junk Model A wheels.

11-10-2017, 09:52 AM	#15
johnneilson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W Posts: 1,054	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine That looks like a "B" block, if so, be very careful pulling those studs out. You do not want to have to use an insert in that deck. If HC head, definitely do the cam, you may want a little hotter than a stock "B". Also, adjustable lifters, not single lock style unless you like adjusting. Recommend having flywheel lightened and change to V8 clutch, very noticeable for driving. Yep, cam timing is off one tooth in pic, no worries, you will get it right when back together. You may want to contact Jim Brierley and get his book(s), best use of a $20 bill I have found. Enjoy the Hobby, John __________________ As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

11-10-2017, 10:17 AM	#16
foxfire42 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: AZ and WA Posts: 764	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine In picture number 4 I think I can see an oil return pipe so not likely it's a B block.

11-10-2017, 11:03 AM	#17
johnneilson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W Posts: 1,054	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine could be right, I see that also now. I was looking at the deck pic and the main bolts look pretty far apart. John __________________ As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

11-10-2017, 11:28 AM	#18
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Re I have not done my home work yet, but just assumed the dimple on crank and timing gear should line up at TDC no. 1? No, you line up the dimple on the cam gear with the mark on crank gear to get everything in proper mesh only, that is not TDC. When the dimple lines up with the timing pin on the cover, that will be TDC for one of 2 cycles (compression or exhaust). __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

11-10-2017, 11:32 AM	#19
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Thanks to everyone. Serial number dates block to 29, but who knows what its been through. I emailed Jim Brierly and bought a copy of his book today. Funny how the best laid plans go... I initially thought I might just check mains and rods, throw on a timing gear and crank pulley and be done. New plan is to be patient and not have regrets later. John, I am very interested in the flywheel/clutch sugguestion. I do remember we used to lighten the Flywheels and 8 pin them on VW motors and what a difference. I need more info on how that affects low end torque on the A's...not looking to build a high rev motor, but perk it up a bit and keep the RPM's down for longevity. As far as cam goes, I do not want to completely disassemble engine and do any machine work. Is it possible to change cam and lifters without doing so? I have adjustable lifters, but have not really looked to see what I have yet. Will post some pics this weekend. Thanks again to all! Last edited by Nosetime; 11-10-2017 at 11:02 PM.

11-11-2017, 06:25 PM	#20
Nosetime Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huntington Beach, Calif Posts: 330	Re: So far, so good on mystery engine Thanks to Mark, ZZlegend for the encouragement and advice! I did also edit my last post with more info re: flywheel and clutch if you might scroll up and advise. I had intended to post some pics of bearings, but need a damn 19/32 socket...nothing I have comes close. Lucky for me, in the morning is Long Beach Hi Po swap meet and there I have I found all my weird Model A tools.