Burned out High Beam Quartz Halogen Bulbs

[OL JENNY]

I recently converted my 1930 Tudor to a 6 volt alternator and LED tail lights and Quartz Halogen headlights. The bulbs are NARVA H4 60/55 bulbs from Germany. I have grounded each headlight back to the battery ground with 12ga wire, grounded the engine to the battery and checked the voltage output which is around 7.5volts at the alternator and headlight connection. My problem is that the bulbs work perfect until I start the engine, excite the alternator, and turn on the high beam resulting in high beam burnout within a few seconds. The low beam works fine. I have tried 4 bulbs with the same result. I can drive the car and the low beams work fine. I cross connected the high beam wire to the low beam socket and the low beam continues to work fine. Nu Rex indicates the 7.5 volts is what is expected. Snyder's Antique Auto have worked with me on bulbs, and we are currently going to try another source. I am open to suggestions.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Use a welding mask to look right at the filaments while they are on. Make sure only ONE filament in each bulb is lit while on low and again while on high.

It's best to turn on the lights only after the engine is started and the alternator is charging. This means that if you have to rev your engine to start the 6 volt one wire alternator charging, then do so before turning on the lights. Otherwise a sudden surge of current can blow the bulbs.

[OL JENNY]

Thanks, I have made sure the alternator has been excited and is charging normal before I turned on the lights. Checking the filaments is a good suggestion, and I will have to be quick.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Have you noticed any high readings on your ammeter? I've seen a couple 6 volt alternators go bad and overcharge.

[Skibb]

Same issue here... except low beams burned out ... of course driving with high beams is like having two search lights pointed down the highway... have switched to Nu Rex 60 amp alternator...

[OL JENNY]

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My ammeter holds perfectly steady, and the NuRex 60 amp alternator is what I just installed.

[msmaron]

I also use the NU REX alternator and I have burned out the high beam on 6 Halogen bulbs this year alone.. check the bulbs BEFORE you install them, i have also found 9 with NO high beam to start with I place them on a batter to test. check for an open ground that might allow a surge and blow them., I still have not found the problem...

[OL JENNY]

Mark, my bulbs have worked fine when installed before the engine is running. The last one I actually left on high beam for 5 minutes before starting the car, exciting the alternator, making sure the ammeter was charging normal and turned to high beam and burned them out within 5 seconds. Maybe Henry is getting even for messing with his lady!

[juke joint johnny]

I have had a problem with Halogen bulbs blowing out on my modern truck .I found out that you should not touch the bulb with your fingers!!!
Sounds crazy I know but you have to use surgical gloves to put them in and then they don't blow out!!!

And they call this Progress I am not so sure !!!!!!

I have a 12 volt alternator, decent original reflectors, and regular bulbs
on my A and that puts out enough light for me

John Cochran

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by papafickdon

Mark, my bulbs have worked fine when installed before the engine is running. The last one I actually left on high beam for 5 minutes before starting the car, exciting the alternator, making sure the ammeter was charging normal and turned to high beam and burned them out within 5 seconds. Maybe Henry is getting even for messing with his lady!

Yea i think i have an issue with a ground or surge?? been working to find it.. it has also blown my cowls and turn signals, ,very frustrating, i am now using the 50/32 and those brights blow also...have something going on and cant seem to narrow it down....argggg

[Tom Wesenberg]

John brought up a good point about not touching the glass on halogen bulbs. I wipe them clean with a cloth and make sure I use the cloth when installing them. This is on modern cars, since I use regular bulbs on my A's.

[dave in australia]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

John brought up a good point about not touching the glass on halogen bulbs. I wipe them clean with a cloth and make sure I use the cloth when installing them. This is on modern cars, since I use regular bulbs on my A's.

Not only that, but I also use methylated spirits to clean them before installing them to make sure they're clean. I'm not sure what methylated spirits is known as in the USA.

[OL JENNY]

I did not clean the bulbs with alcohol before installing, but I did wear gloves and actually did not touch the glass. But the low beam keeps on burning happily.

[MikeK]

I think this is yet another example of the evils of "one wire" alternators, especially those based on the 40 year old Delco 10SI design. Amazing how the old car crowd genuflects to them despite absolutely no use in OEM apps! All the original OEM 10SI's were three wire. The one wire converts regulate (poorly) the voltage between the output and the alternator frame, NOT the chassis ground. A less than ideal, not so tightly bolted alternator mount, or a lack of a dedicated hard wire from the engine to the chassis/ battery earth/ground will give you wild surges despite a seemingly even volt meter reading while running in neutral with the hood up and meter attached. Add to this a virtually mandatory spike when they self-energize at a higher than idle speed. I'll take remote sense and switched excitation (three wire) any day.

In any case, a 7.5v set point is very high. 7.35v should be the absolute max. If you look at specs for the myriad of available 10SI regulators you will see great variance in regulated output. Most 6v regulators peak at 7.2v.

Add to this the variance in the expected burn parameters between the hi and lo filaments in German H4 lamps. The low filament is calibrated to run at a lower peak temperature, something like 3000K. The high filament is not expected to exhibit long life and burns near 3400K, giving much more visible light per watt. The result is quick death for only the high if overvoltage is experienced. Interestingly, US engineered H4's (Our bulb #9003) have both filaments burn closer to 3200K.

[OL JENNY]

Mike, where can I get the US engineered H4 (#9003) you refer to ? How hard, or how possible is it to restrict the voltage in the headlight circuits ?

[socalplanedoc]

Originally Posted by dave in australia

Not only that, but I also use methylated spirits to clean them before installing them to make sure they're clean. I'm not sure what methylated spirits is known as in the USA.

Denatured Alcohol. great stuff, I've lost count of all the uses I have for it.

[Del in NE Ohio]

I have run the same 6v quartz conversion w/ 1 wire alternator in my roadster for 15 years and no problem...It seems to me that with the low beam being subjected to the same voltage (if indeed that is the problem) it should blow also. I suspect something has changed within the H4 bulb from NARVA (Germany). There is listing for a Chinese H4 6volt bulb on a website that warranties the bulb for 6 months. I believe the website is www.classicgarage.com

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Del in NE Ohio

I have run the same 6v quartz conversion w/ 1 wire alternator in my roadster for 15 years and no problem...It seems to me that with the low beam being subjected to the same voltage (if indeed that is the problem) it should blow also. I suspect something has changed within the H4 bulb from NARVA (Germany). There is listing for a Chinese H4 6volt bulb on a website that warranties the bulb for 6 months. I believe the website is www.classicgarage.com

The low filament, designed for a longer life, hence the lower Kelvin operating temperature, will take approximately 12% more voltage to reach the same "K" as the high filament. In other words, it will take 12% more supply voltage than the high beam. It will not burn out at the same voltage that blows the high filament.

The now available Transpo 10SI 6V self-exciting regulators, used to 'convert' the alternators to 6V, all have a whopping high 7.7V set point. LINK That would be like having 15.4V in a 12V modern car that should never see over 14.8.

There is one more Chinese P.O.C. LINK that has NO set point specs and does have a remote sense. This one is often wired with an internal jumper to the B+ terminal, making it 'one-wire'. It has a nasty 30ma parasitic drain when you do that.

There used to be other 6V reg's available with lower set points, both one and three wire, but no longer. I quit rebuilding 10 & 12SI's for this ugly reason years ago. It is easy to build a discrete component 6V regulator with a voltage adjustment potentiometer. I have made a few in the past. The problem there (I learned the hard way) is car buffs always want to play with everything adjustable, even if you hot glue a plastic seal on it after it is in the car and set while running. Telling them 'dont touch' is like telling a child no.

Almost all NARVA and Osram German made H4's are rated 150 hrs Hi/300 hrs Lo to a 20% failure rate. The US 9003 standard for H4's addresses exact filament placement (for perfect focus), envelope operating temp (for proper halogen cycling) and minimal life expectancy. People in the US would never stand for bulbs that last only ten months if you only drive 30 min. twice a day. 9003 lamps use proprietary gas mixes that control re-deposition structure during the halogen cycle, resulting in life ratings approaching 1000 hours. Unfortunately there are no 6V H4's made to 9003 standards.

The chinese made H4's are made to no standards. To use a cheap gas fill that needs no process control along with the bromine or iodine (halogen additive) they are generally made to a lower Kelvin, sometimes as low as 2800K. This makes them last longer, and better tolerate occasional over-voltage spikes, despite 15-20% less visible light output at the same wattage.

If I were papafickdon, the initiator of this thread, I'd start by checking the alternator with an oscilloscope for diode pattern and overvoltage time to regulation. If it takes more than 10-15 milliseconds after the self-excitation 'kicks in', the regulator is junk. My gut feeling is either a bad regulator or lousy electrical connections, either within the alternator itself, or in the vehicle. A dirty fix would be to put 25A or greater rated rectifier diodes (heatsink required!) in the headlamp circuit. That would cause a 0.6V reduction in voltage. If, however, the alternator time lag to regulation after excitation is too long the bulbs may still blow.

Ah, the fun when you make supposedly simple mods.

[OL JENNY]

MikeK, thank you for taking the time to discuss my problem. Being a novice, this really helps. Not having the ability to check the alternator or knowing who does locally, I may try the "dirty fix" first. You really hit the nail on the head with your last statement, "Ah, the fun when you make supposedly simple mods". I also experience that with computer issues. If there is any good news in this, it is that the low beam conversion H4 filament is still brighter than my 50cp regular bulb.