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05-18-2017, 02:15 PM | #1 |
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Generator no-charge update
In an earlier thread I posted about a weird problem I was having with the Roadster. So as not to be buried I opened a new thread with what I have found so far.
One generator from a major parts house, was working OK for maybe 2 hours of use then ammeter started bouncing all over the place and would not show a charge anymore. Headlites 'on' with engine running at fast idle, shut off engine lites did not dim stayed the same. Checked voltage at generator post there was none. Cutout original, shows 49 Ohms it is good. In the meantime I had tried a known good ammeter it was the same, no charge. Took this generator to a local rebuilder that does a lot of antique tractors, he put it on his tester and voila, something definitely wrong with it he got nothing out of it either. Good. I'm on the right track. Fully charged battery, Voltage at battery 6.6. Voltage at starter switch 6.6 Voltage at terminal box both studs 6.5. Voltage at ammeter posts both sides one at a time 6.5 Voltage at cutout relay output side 6.5. OK looking good to me so far. Put another generator on the car that an antique tractor builder tested for me, was putting out 7.2 Volts, known good generator here we go. Put it on the car, couldn't get a voltage reading out of the generator post. Ran car at fast idle with headlites on, turned off motor no dimming at all no change in headlites. No increase in voltage at cutout 'out' connection with motor running. Measured cutout mounting screws as someone suggested they are 1/4th inch as they are supposed to be. Used the original good cutout showing 49 Ohms of resistance. Walking away from it for a while, it doesn't make any sense what is going on. If I find the problem I will pass on what happened. I've never seen this before |
05-18-2017, 02:19 PM | #2 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
How's your ground from the engine to generator and engine to frame?
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05-18-2017, 02:35 PM | #3 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Just for the heck of it have you tried to see if the generator will motor ?
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05-18-2017, 03:00 PM | #4 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Just measuring the resistance of the coil in the cutout does not mean the cutout is good. The contacts could be dirty and not making a good connection.
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05-18-2017, 03:16 PM | #5 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Put a jumper wire across the cut out and test again.
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05-18-2017, 05:40 PM | #6 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
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If you send the cutout to me I can adjust it for the correct voltage. |
05-18-2017, 06:45 PM | #7 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Thanks for the replies... I got called away this afternoon on another situation.
I bypassed the cutout, with the a jumper wire to energize the cutout a couple days ago, that didn't change anything. Grounds are good and clean and tight. Thought of that also. Interesting about motoring the generator I will give that a whirl too out of curiousity. Will report back with my findings. Tom I'll be in touch thanks. Last edited by Jeff/Illinois; 05-18-2017 at 07:03 PM. |
05-18-2017, 10:43 PM | #8 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
If you want to break the spot welds and adjust the cutout yourself, I'll list a couple threads that should help. Here's the first one.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...air+tom&page=2 Here's another thread. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...er+removal+tom |
05-18-2017, 11:04 PM | #9 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Keep in mind that if the cutout never closes, the generator will climb in voltage until the armature fails. It may already be too late for this generator. The battery is the regulator in the stock Model A setup. Ground connections, cut out, and battery condition all play a role in the generator output.
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05-18-2017, 11:07 PM | #10 | |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Quote:
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05-18-2017, 11:53 PM | #11 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
So how many Amps is it putting out and what is the 3 brush set for?
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05-19-2017, 12:02 AM | #12 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
The ammeter reads only the charge going into the battery, or the current being drained from the battery. Since Jeff's generator is now regulated, it has no third brush to adjust. The amps will change automatically as the battery needs more or less charge. I've had my EVR in my 28 for almost 20 years now, and after a few minutes of running, the ammeter will read just a hair above the 0 mark.
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05-19-2017, 07:39 AM | #13 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
You didn't give us a voltage reading on the generator side of the cutout. Check it with motor running at a fast idle.
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05-19-2017, 09:22 AM | #14 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Have you POLARIZED it?
Bill W.
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05-19-2017, 09:50 AM | #15 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Yes, I did polarize it Bill, good point.
Voltage reading on the generator from one of the big parts houses was 1.0V if I recall correctly. Maybe I should hook up seven of these generators to get 7V Think there is room for that many in the car?? It'll take one heck of a long generator belt! Will be back in garage later will report back in. Thank you to all who had suggestions. |
05-19-2017, 12:12 PM | #16 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Here's an update on this bad boy.
Known good generator (Tom's) back on car. Fully charged battery, car not running: 6.8V at cutout output side Car at fast idle: 7.2V at generator post 1.1V-3.8V bouncing all over at cutout output post w/ wire connections (yellow wire/yellow with black tracer) I got a message from Tom, he said the cutout gap needs adjusted it's not able to connect. Original cutout has 49 Ohms resistance I thought it was OK. Learning as I go thanks to Tom and FB! So, gotta be the cutout. To run the Diode Cutout Tom told me to snip the little green wire coming out of his EVR. Decided that I didn't want to booger that up like I'm prone to do so I have been trying original cutout and a 70's repop that I had. After get the cutout back will report back in.....Tom, I'll send it your way I misplaced your phone number!! And that number was registering 7.2V when I checked it Thanks fellows............ |
05-19-2017, 01:28 PM | #17 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
"To run the Diode Cutout Tom told me to snip the little green wire coming out of his EVR."
Hey, Jeff. Are you sure about snipping the Green wire for the diode? The instruction sheet I have from Tom says; " If you are using a Diode cutout, be sure to cut the BLUE wire. Separate ends about 1/16"."
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05-19-2017, 02:44 PM | #18 | |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Quote:
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05-19-2017, 05:05 PM | #19 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Good thing neither of us are trying to defuse a bomb by cutting wires.
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05-19-2017, 06:55 PM | #20 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
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05-23-2017, 12:23 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Quote:
I also received a nice original ammeter and a repro ammeter for repairs. I haven't seen this before, but both covers are so tight that I couldn't tap them off. Tomorrow I'll have to make another special tool to remove the covers without damaging them. |
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05-23-2017, 12:45 AM | #22 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Re;
Since Jeff's generator is now regulated, Sorry but how did it become a regulated generator, I guess I missed something because I read it as being a stock generator. Was this something in his first post?
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05-23-2017, 01:22 AM | #23 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
It's in post #10. He bought the regulator from Tom and installed it.
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05-23-2017, 08:34 AM | #24 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Actually I can't take the credit for installing Tom's EVR, I had sent the generator up to Minnesota and he rebuilt it and installed the EVR at the same time.
I have another rebuilt generator, done by one of the big Model A parts houses, as original with the third brush, lying on the shelf. Tom did the generator on our '36 Pickup about five years ago with his EVR, and the difference is incredible. Real similar to the long Autolite Model A generator look a lot alike. Charges about 2 amps while driving, and the Farm King 6V battery I run in that truck is still in PERFECT condition. I was leary of a 6V battery over five years old, took that battery to a shop uptown, they did a load test on it, and it is fine. Usually 4 years was tops for me on them. I tag this stuff as I go, so that the next guy who gets it at my estate sale after I miss third gear and go 'neutral' in the shift pattern of life will have some idea of what he/she is buying! Last edited by Jeff/Illinois; 05-24-2017 at 09:11 AM. |
05-23-2017, 09:17 AM | #25 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
"Jeff has my EVR to regulate the output to about 7.2 volts, so he's safe as far as burning up the generator."
Ok so I would guess that "EVR" is electronic voltage regulator? How does the generator itself differ from stock using this unit? Is it converted to wiring like the later type generators using the voltage regulator? I may not be the only one a little lost on this one.
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05-23-2017, 12:38 PM | #26 | |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
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Quote:
After a few minutes of running, the battery will be recharged and the higher voltage will make the EVR drop the voltage feeding the field windings. The mechanical voltage regulators of the late 30's through the 70's operate on the same principle, but they have vibrating contacts to control the voltage. |
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05-23-2017, 04:31 PM | #27 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
I had my Generator sent out for a rebuild ...flashed it before i installed it and it motored ...installed on the car and I could never get it to charge ....after screwing with it for a while I found it's fields were wired backwards ...
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05-23-2017, 07:11 PM | #28 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
Thank you Tom.
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05-26-2017, 04:01 PM | #29 |
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Re: Generator no-charge update
An update on the update:
Installed the Original Cutout that Tom adjusted the voltage on to accommodate his EVR and the original Ammeter I bought that he fine tuned, problem solved. We're off to the races again She's a-chargin' and working like a champ. Original parts sure make a difference. Someday somebody will build a good ammeter There has been a LOT of progress on good quality Model A Ford reproduction parts in the last few years compared to the 70's. |
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