bearing insert identification help...

[hardtimes]

Anyone have access to information or know where to locate such info, regarding identifying the bearing shells that I have in an engine ?
This is what is on back of ROD shell/insert:
010 2531 7ry

[Kurt in NJ]

so most likely they are ,010 undersaized
is it just 1 bearing at the mains or are there several in a row (how wide are the inserts)
what is the size of the bore in the block
what is the size of the crankshaft
can you take pictures and post them

to look them up you need the sizes---block bore, crankshaft, width ---there are some charts of bearings that were "made to work"

[Railcarmover]

Federal Mogul 2531 crosses to a CAT 8N8226 off highway truck rod bearing...what are you working on ?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Federal Mogul 2531 crosses to a CAT 8N8226 off highway truck rod bearing...what are you working on ?

Hey Railcarmover,
Well, I happen to 'fall into' a B block, more specifically a newly rebuilt B block which was made into a new short block and put on the shelf decades ago. Owner, auto shop teacher/high school, died about ten yrs ago and son-in -law selling off his FIL's extensive model a collection. I thought that I'd 'paid enough' for what I got....and told the gentleman that 'I don't need another block', as I loaded stuff on my vehicle. He said, well I don't want it left here, so take it with the other stuff paid for !
Then I took a closer look at the block and realized that I'd been making a mistake, if I passed on it and didn't get it. The cross hatch shown brightly yet in the cylinders ! New pistons, timing gears and I thought a 'plain' B/C crank. This was just prior to New Year. Today , I worked it all day while it rained here !! Found new standard pistons, cam looks to have different than B grind; 1.8 intakes; ported and bowls blended; new dist/cam gear; excellent C head and side plate drilled for fitting full pressure. Perfect B pan that has been prepared so that a V8 trans set up can be used easily with adaptor. And, when I took off bearing caps..viola....drilled C crank with rod and main inserts and #1 and #2 custom main caps !! So, trying to decide what to do with an extra improved B short block...dilemma, eh !

So, asking about rod bearing insert info first, as that's what I got off. Mabe main caps tomorrow. Good info to have with block.

Question for you. I'm familiar with warming up B blocks. This guy left the rod dippers on the caps, rather than take them off. That a bit unusual, isn't it , with a full pressure system

Thank you much for that great bearing info and cross reference ! That will definitely be put with block info.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

so most likely they are ,010 undersaized
is it just 1 bearing at the mains or are there several in a row (how wide are the inserts)
what is the size of the bore in the block
what is the size of the crankshaft
can you take pictures and post them

to look them up you need the sizes---block bore, crankshaft, width ---there are some charts of bearings that were "made to work"

Hey Kurt,
Just rod caps of today. I bearing set per rod.
Standard bore/std pistons.
Drilled C crank with .010 rods. Mains size maybe checked tomo.
Here are a few pictures , for you, that I took today.

[Railcarmover]

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Im going to say that dippers are the fastest way to get oil to the rod bearing,then they lose the 'fight' when pressure builds..if that adds up its a good idea then,figure the oil under pressure would have to counter act the dipper 'pressure' so the leakage of pressurized oil wouldnt be that bad,.if that makes sense.

My B is an early,home made counterweights on the crank (quality weldons),big ends of the rods turned down,sleeved .080 over..cam is a fuel pump lobe B,appears to be unground yet has only .270 total lift..engine had a Winfield red head but the PO took it off and sold it before I got the rest..check out the rod...



interesting huh?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Im going to say that dippers are the fastest way to get oil to the rod bearing,then they lose the 'fight' when pressure builds..if that adds up its a good idea then,figure the oil under pressure would have to counter act the dipper 'pressure' so the leakage of pressurized oil wouldnt be that bad,.if that makes sense.

My B is an early,home made counterweights on the crank (quality weldons),big ends of the rods turned down,sleeved .080 over..cam is a fuel pump lobe B,appears to be unground yet has only .270 total lift..engine had a Winfield red head but the PO took it off and sold it before I got the rest..check out the rod...



interesting huh?

Yeah, interesting. Never cease to be amazed at what's done to 'customize' stuff.

[hardtimes]

I just now re-read your first paragraph. Although the dippers are still on caps, the insert bearings are NOT drilled to let oil in or out from the dipper ! So, the splash dipper will throw oil around (towards cam) as it normally would, but usually, in my experience, the dipper is treated as extra weight to be taken off the cap. Sorry for the confusion of not explaining this first time. Think I'll leave them on , for next guy to deal with if he wants, as for me to take them off now...will entail rebalancing act.

[Railcarmover]

Its all good,the dipper rain shower has value. I would think if the dipper port was drilled into the insert it wouldn't hurt,hell it might help.In operation the dipper never starves,it would provide instant lubrication on start up and shouldnt have much impact on the pressure feed,the dipper is constantly forcing oil into the bearing,granted your not developing high oil pressure the dipper should compliment the system.

Windage is a potential issue,if your turning high pressure the dipper just adds resistance.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Its all good,the dipper rain shower has value. I would think if the dipper port was drilled into the insert it wouldn't hurt,hell it might help.In operation the dipper never starves,it would provide instant lubrication on start up and shouldnt have much impact on the pressure feed,the dipper is constantly forcing oil into the bearing,granted your not developing high oil pressure the dipper should compliment the system.

Windage is a potential issue,if your turning high pressure the dipper just adds resistance.

I agree with your assessment.
Except that my B pans do not have dipper trays, usually. So, dipper would be superfluous weight. I remove tray (with full oil pressure system) and add an oil 'damming' system, which is designed to keep a good supply of oil around the pump pickup. Especially upon hard acceleration and / or hard cornering. Since this pan was already missing the dipper tray, and made for full oil pressure, I figure that the old timer possibly had the same thing in mind, but didn't get around to removing the dippers.

[Railcarmover]

Well that should fetch a fair price,and a satisfied customer. The glyptol is a nice touch.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Well that should fetch a fair price,and a satisfied customer. The glyptol is a nice touch.

Ok, need your assistance again with MAIN bearing shells this time.
See pictures: #2215A 2cr .010

Does anyone notice anything different/out of ordinary in these pics

[johnneilson]

the other way to id bearings is to measure the bore in the housing, then look up specs.

just looking at them, probably Buda diesel rod inserts.

[Railcarmover]

Did you pull the main caps?..post up a picture of the bearing shell where the part number is.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Did you pull the main caps?..post up a picture of the bearing shell where the part number is.

I'll put up another picture of the shell with part number, maybe tomorrow morning. Thanks.

Couldn't get these pics to upload earlier today...go figure.
Anyway, here are some pictures of REAR main with two sets of bearing shells. Id numbers that I gave are on shell end opposite of the tangs.

Anyone know why the 'black/maybe blue' dark coloring on the cap ? Never seen that before ?

Does the RADIUS /radii where cheek meets pin look sufficient to you guys ?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Did you pull the main caps?..post up a picture of the bearing shell where the part number is.

Ok, tomorrow will get that picture for you, thanks.

[Tom Wesenberg]

So far things look pretty good other than the light surface rust on the front of the crank, but I'm not seeing your thrust bearings.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

So far things look pretty good other than the light surface rust on the front of the crank, but I'm not seeing your thrust bearings.

It may be on the center main. some use to do that years ago.

[Railcarmover]

Those rear main journal radius's are short but that was the rear thrust as Tom said.Pull those other caps. From what Ive seen so far you should clean and build,why buy or even identify the bearings,odds are you or the purchaser wont wear them out.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Those rear main journal radius's are short but that was the rear thrust as Tom said.Pull those other caps. From what Ive seen so far you should clean and build,why buy or even identify the bearings,odds are you or the purchaser wont wear them out.

May are most likely correct about wearing out a new set of shell bearings, but 'always' be prepared !

Also, I gave you wrong info , as the bearing id is at the TANG END of back of shell as shown by the picture that I just added.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by George Miller

It may be on the center main. some use to do that years ago.

Hey George,
Can't get anything past your, eh ! Always thinking which is good for a young man .

Haven't gotten to the center custom cap yet and think that there is no reason now, to disturb it as all looks excellent. The old man put center bearing thrusts in. He did very nice work, IMO.

Question:
They now make/sell those asbestos/copper washers/fillers that go between the nuts and block, to prevent oil leaks. Have any of you used these(one time use) and do you recommend their usage ? Or is that a waste of $/time

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Can't get anything past your, eh ! Always thinking which is good for a young man .

Haven't gotten to the center custom cap yet and think that there is no reason now, to disturb it as all looks excellent. The old man put center bearing thrusts in. He did very nice work, IMO.

Question:
They now make/sell those asbestos/copper washers/fillers that go between the nuts and block, to prevent oil leaks. Have any of you used these(one time use) and do you recommend their usage ? Or is that a waste of $/time

No I never have used them. I always put a chamfer on the bolt hole in the block, then put a dab of rtv there to keep the oil from creeping up the bolt.

[johnneilson]

Rick,

those main bearing inserts in rear sure look like 1055G inserts from Datsun.

pull the center and front mains, more than likely same inserts but narrowed up

J

[Railcarmover]

I run a hard washer and rtv,blue loctite and a grade 8 nut instead of the cotter and castellated nut on the mains..

Id take detailed picture and get that engine running before I off it..if it were mine..

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

I run a hard washer and rtv,blue loctite and a grade 8 nut instead of the cotter and castellated nut on the mains..

Id take detailed picture and get that engine running before I off it..if it were mine..

The more I mess with this B, the more appealing it becomes to hear it run. Wish I knew about the cam, but that would entail taking it out and mailing it to Jim B. Maybe it is better grind than a B ? Someone, removed the fuel pump lobe, so work was done on it. I'm sure that Jim could work some magic on this one. I've got everything to make it run....except a decent oil pump.
What do you figure is the minimal crank movement for a B...front to back ?
Is there a 'worry' if none is perceived ??

[hardtimes]

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Originally Posted by johnneilson

Rick,

those main bearing inserts in rear sure look like 1055G inserts from Datsun.

pull the center and front mains, more than likely same inserts but narrowed up

J

Hey John,
Yeah, I'll most likely follow that advice.
Is there a 'chart' of some kind to convert a bearing shell number to different makes(numbers) with SAME dimensions ?

[johnneilson]

Rick,

I have never seen one for the numbers stamped on the shells.
Once you know the number it is easy to cross mfgrs.

more than likely the housing bore in the block is 2.146, if so it is the datsun
if it is larger, 2.162 it is a perkins/buda diesel.

there are a number of different ones as the application is not specific.

I also think there is a triumph application that gets used often.

In looking at the pics again, the radius fillet on the crank is too small, my opinion for anything more than a touring motor.

J

[Railcarmover]

^^^ Im with John on the radius,the shear factor is too high^^^^

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by johnneilson

Rick,

I have never seen one for the numbers stamped on the shells.
Once you know the number it is easy to cross mfgrs.

more than likely the housing bore in the block is 2.146, if so it is the datsun
if it is larger, 2.162 it is a perkins/buda diesel.

there are a number of different ones as the application is not specific.

I also think there is a triumph application that gets used often.

In looking at the pics again, the radius fillet on the crank is too small, my opinion for anything more than a touring motor.

J

Thanks, I got nothing against 'touring', as long as someone else is doing it ! For various reasons, various parts of me will not tolerate sitting for hours on end, especially in a Model A.
That does it, off with its' head, or maybe on with its head !

[Railcarmover]

Nah,just dont do any clutch dumps at half throttle,Imagine that flywheel can raise hell with the grey iron bellhousing...be like somebody set off a claymore at your crotch..

[Wm J.]

Hard times,

To answer your original question, call Max Hermans at H&H and ask him. As indicated by the MAX in yellow letters on the crank counter weight H&H is the builder of the engine. That plus the fact the thrust is on the center main.

Wm J.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by Wm J.

Hard times,

To answer your original question, call Max Hermans at H&H and ask him. As indicated by the MAX in yellow letters on the crank counter weight H&H is the builder of the engine. That plus the fact the thrust is on the center main.

Wm J.

UH OH

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Wm J.

Hard times,

To answer your original question, call Max Hermans at H&H and ask him. As indicated by the MAX in yellow letters on the crank counter weight H&H is the builder of the engine. That plus the fact the thrust is on the center main.

Wm J.

Hey Wm,
Well, that is interesting. Enough so, that I might call him. I did not examine that yellow paint on crank closely enough to come up with that name. Has that been a standard marking system for them, if you know

If true, that might explain the skinny radius. On the other hand, he would know about the bearing shells used, if his work, and that would be good...thanks. But, he/they may know nothing, but sold the old man the crank. Not too long ago, I contacted him about a marked cam, that I got(have now) from a guy who bought it from them. I called up the business and he told me that he hasn't made a cam like that for years. True, the guy who I got it from, bought it in 80s. Maybe just let that sleeping dog stay sleeping,eh !

Ya know that life IS strange. Yesterday, I visited a guy who volunteered to test a part for me. While there, two other guys showed. We talked A/B engine, cars, etc... One of these two guys was helping us pressure check parts....and stated that he has taken his newly rebuilt B engine back there two/three times for rework, bummer. He gave up on that B and is now looking for another for his roadster. What a coincidence, hm.