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Old 12-28-2017, 08:06 PM   #1
Tod
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Default New B head.

Since my pattern cutting machine just cleared time I decided to start cutting the pattern for the new B head today. Also got my new Mazak horizontal soft wired and powered up to see what things look like.

A lot of glare on the screen due to light from outside but the monitor is clean and clear in real life. This is very good.

Tod
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Old 12-29-2017, 11:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: New B head.

Is that an M Plus control?

Last edited by JRN1967; 12-30-2017 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: New B head.

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Is that an M Plus control?
Yes.

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Old 12-30-2017, 09:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: New B head.

Great news. I am looking forward to it.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: New B head.

Tod, Will it use the B (3 bolt) water pump or the A (4 bolt) configuration ?
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Old 12-30-2017, 12:16 PM   #6
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Default Re: New B head.

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Tod, Will it use the B (3 bolt) water pump or the A (4 bolt) configuration ?
Terry
3 bolt pump. The chamber will be like a Winfield crow's foot with stock location plug.

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Old 12-31-2017, 01:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: New B head.

We always open up the Z axis cover and set our best level on the guide. If you have two precision levels one on Z and the other on X it helps to get it earth leveled. By the pic, it looks like you were able to get it homed out ok. But I see an E-stop.

I assume its a 40 taper? Did you try a tool change? If its loud don't start running it yet.
Can you post a far away pic of the machine?
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Old 12-31-2017, 01:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: New B head.

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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
3 bolt pump. The chamber will be like a Winfield crow's foot with stock location plug.

Tod
Hey Tod,
Sounds like a NICE head offering ! Please post pic of first finished one with top/bottom for us, thanks ! Cannot go wrong with that crowfoot chamber.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: New B head.

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Hey Tod,
Sounds like a NICE head offering ! Please post pic of first finished one with top/bottom for us, thanks ! Cannot go wrong with that crowfoot chamber.

Will do. Today I finished the rough cutting of the pattern and started on the finish pass. Looks good so far.

The Darton sleeves came in for the first two aluminum blocks and they look great as you expect Darton sleeves to look. Checked out dimensionally so now I need to get them installed.

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Old 01-03-2018, 10:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: New B head.

I have a Winfield Red Head with the crowfoot chamber on my 1930 Town Sedan. Love that head.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:35 AM   #11
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Default Re: New B head.

What will the compression ratio be?
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: New B head.

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What will the compression ratio be?

In the 6:1 range.

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Old 01-04-2018, 05:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: New B head.

Rough cutting the pattern.

And... the sleeves for the first 2 aluminum blocks got here.
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File Type: jpg 20171229_124149.jpg (24.7 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg 20171229_124130.jpg (27.8 KB, 138 views)
File Type: jpg 20180103_135020.jpg (50.0 KB, 140 views)
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: New B head.

Tod,

It would sure be nice if the B head was cast iron and had the letter "C" on it.

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Old 01-05-2018, 02:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: New B head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Rough cutting the pattern.

And... the sleeves for the first 2 aluminum blocks got here.
Hey Tod,
Thanks for the pictures. That is one nice looking head !
And, the sleeves look like jewelry ...for engine lovers !!
Now, after seeing sleeve pictures, I think that images answer a question that I was curious to know answer of...i.e.- how are sleeves 'anchored' to block ? Does that ledge go on top of block, where head actually helps keep it in place
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: New B head.

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Tod,

It would sure be nice if the B head was cast iron and had the letter "C" on it.

Charlie Stephens
What?? A wooden head isn't good enough for ya??
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Old 01-05-2018, 03:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: New B head.

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Hey Tod,
Thanks for the pictures. That is one nice looking head !
And, the sleeves look like jewelry ...for engine lovers !!
Now, after seeing sleeve pictures, I think that images answer a question that I was curious to know answer of...i.e.- how are sleeves 'anchored' to block ? Does that ledge go on top of block, where head actually helps keep it in place
The main anchoring is done by metal crush on the OD of the sleeves. There is usually a couple thousandths of crush on the sleeves. The block is heated and it expands so that the sleeves slide in and when the block cools it squeezes the sleeves. The flange on top helps insure that it cannot possibly rise due to the head being torqued down on the sleeves.

Today the finish pass on the B head pattern was completed. It sure looks nice. I made it out of wood because I don't expect sales of this head to be very high. And, I probably will put a "C" on it as the originals have.

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Old 01-06-2018, 01:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: New B head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
The main anchoring is done by metal crush on the OD of the sleeves. There is usually a couple thousandths of crush on the sleeves. The block is heated and it expands so that the sleeves slide in and when the block cools it squeezes the sleeves. The flange on top helps insure that it cannot possibly rise due to the head being torqued down on the sleeves.

Today the finish pass on the B head pattern was completed. It sure looks nice. I made it out of wood because I don't expect sales of this head to be very high. And, I probably will put a "C" on it as the originals have.

Tod
Hey Tod,
Thanks for details of installation ! I like the idea of the head locking the sleeve down. I think that's one modern method used for that purpose.

I happen to have a C head lying nearby in the shed, if you need a picture of exactly where that C is located. If needed, let me know and I'll PM you a picture.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: New B head.

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Originally Posted by hardtimes View Post
Hey Tod,
Thanks for details of installation ! I like the idea of the head locking the sleeve down. I think that's one modern method used for that purpose.

I happen to have a C head lying nearby in the shed, if you need a picture of exactly where that C is located. If needed, let me know and I'll PM you a picture.
Why don't you post the picture here also as well as PM'ing it. There may be a couple of versions of the head as time went on. Any chance you could explain how to attach a picture to a PM? I haven't been able to do it.

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Old 01-06-2018, 02:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: New B head.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens View Post
Why don't you post the picture here also as well as PM'ing it. There may be a couple of versions of the head as time went on. Any chance you could explain how to attach a picture to a PM? I haven't been able to do it.

Charlie Stephens
This is what I am familiar with.

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Old 01-07-2018, 02:12 AM   #21
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Default Re: New B head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens View Post
Why don't you post the picture here also as well as PM'ing it. There may be a couple of versions of the head as time went on. Any chance you could explain how to attach a picture to a PM? I haven't been able to do it.

Charlie Stephens
Hey Charlie,
My computer instructor showed me how to attach pictures. She(Mrs.) knows computer stuff and I just absorb some...osmosis ! I don't understand any of it and/or the lingo. You probably would not understand what I tried to tell you anyway, sorry ! There are others here who will help on this subject, like Mike/Fla ...
Anyway, the picture that Tod just posted above, is a good representative of a nice C head. Only difference of his to mine, is that mine does not have the Ford script that Tod's picture shows. I'll post a picture of it tomorrow for you.

Note: I just realized that I used the wrong language for what I send picture with. I meant to send an 'email' with picture, not a PM with picture.
Don't know how that is done either
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:17 AM   #22
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Default Re: New B head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
This is what I am familiar with.

Tod
Hey Tod,
Question:
Since you make heads, maybe you can say ....what are those little 'bumps' for on this head pictured ? Are they just casting flaws, code for something or what ? My head, which I'll show you picture of tomorrow doesn't have any of those
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:14 AM   #23
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Default Re: New B head.

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Hey Tod,
Question:
Since you make heads, maybe you can say ....what are those little 'bumps' for on this head pictured ? Are they just casting flaws, code for something or what ? My head, which I'll show you picture of tomorrow doesn't have any of those
The little bumps are chaplets. In some casting situations they are used to support the sand cores to keep metal thickness correct and to keep cores from breaking when the weight of metal runs into the mold. Found mainly in heavier metals like iron and steel. They are also used to keep cores from floating. I have used Styrofoam in the past when pouring aluminum Auburn/Cord heads. The metal gets in around the core and then burns away the foam, but by then the core is surrounded by enough metal that it will not move.

Tod

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Old 01-07-2018, 09:08 AM   #24
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Default Re: New B head.

I hate to be a kiljoy, but I hope more "B" water pump replacement parts become available. Admittedly, I only checked three vendors, Bert's, Tams, and Snyder's catalogs for "B" water pump parts. Except for gaskets and shafts , there was nothing available. Bert's does offer a rebuilt ($175.) The question is, how many "A" bushings, etc fit the "B" pump body?
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:36 AM   #25
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Default Re: New B head.

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Originally Posted by Terry, NJ View Post
I hate to be a kiljoy, but I hope more "B" water pump replacement parts become available. Admittedly, I only checked three vendors, Bert's, Tams, and Snyder's catalogs for "B" water pump parts. Except for gaskets and shafts , there was nothing available. Bert's does offer a rebuilt ($175.) The question is, how many "A" bushings, etc fit the "B" pump body?
Terry
I assume that people asking me about these heads already have parts. But, if quantities increase pumps can be made.

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Old 01-07-2018, 01:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: New B head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
The little bumps are chaplets. In some casting situations they are used to support the sand cores to keep metal thickness correct and to keep cores from breaking when the weight of metal runs into the mold. Found mainly in heavier metals like iron and steel. They are also used to keep cores from floating. I have used Styrofoam in the past when pouring aluminum Auburn/Cord heads. The metal gets in around the core and then burns away the foam, but by then the core is surrounded by enough metal that it will not move.

Tod

Tod
'chaplets'...who knew , thanks !
Anyway, here are pictures of C head that sits in shed. No idea why it has no ford script and less....'chaplets'. Looks 'normal' otherwise. Wish it had the crowfoot chamber !
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 003.jpg (38.0 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg 004.jpg (35.0 KB, 70 views)
File Type: jpg 005.jpg (32.0 KB, 67 views)

Last edited by hardtimes; 01-07-2018 at 01:24 PM. Reason: .......
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:32 PM   #27
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Default Re: New B head.

Here is the B head pattern just out of the machine with a thin first coat of pattern paint applied.

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Old 01-13-2018, 03:35 PM   #28
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Default Re: New B head.

Tod,

I have 5 heads (no picture of #5). The first two have only a block "C" (note the head in post #26 matches these two). The next three have the block "C" but also a very poor "Ford" script and "USA", a number at the front of the head and something inside of the "C". Without measuring the "C" appears to be in the same location on all of the heads. I would go with #1 and #2 but would be interested in hearing comments from others. If you need high resolution copies of these photos send me your email.

Charlie Stephens
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5725.jpg (27.8 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5726.jpg (28.2 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5727.jpg (25.0 KB, 42 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_5732.jpg (25.5 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5733.jpg (50.3 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 01-13-2018 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:34 PM   #29
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Tod,

I have 5 heads (no picture of #5). The first two have only a block "C" (note the head in post #26 matches these two). The next three have the block "C" but also a very poor "Ford" script and "USA", a number at the front of the head and something inside of the "C". Without measuring the "C" appears to be in the same location on all of the heads. I would go with #1 and #2 but would be interested in hearing comments from others. If you need high resolution copies of these photos send me your email.

Charlie Stephens
Looks good. I have one in the shop to go from.

Tod
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