Noise in my new 29 a engin

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by Simonpie

Railcarmover, The head doesn't change the timing. The head changes the engine's need for certain timing. Generally, higher compression causes higher peak temp on compression just before ignition. This causes a faster burn, so the engine needs less ignition advance. A similar effect can happen with a cam, manifold, or exhaust change. Different cylinder filling at different rpm's makes the burn rate different, so different ignition timing may be needed.

The only way I know to measure a bob weight type advance at different rpm's is with a tachometer and a timing light.

My point in question brother...how can you effectively monitor the changes needed in timing with a lever? and why? especially given a center main expected to handle the impulse from four cylinders with no more area than a front bearing that handles two cylinders? regardless of timing required by a raise in compression, the basic need for a mechanical ramped increase in timing is critical for engine life as a whole. Harold Hicks,the ford engineer brought in from aircraft design to raise the hp to 40 noticed a main bearing weakness with the design...but was shot down by Mr Ford,who allowed his redesign of the exhaust manifold and additional cooling around the exhaust valves,but felt the three main bearing design was adequate..but he nodded with the B engine,offering mechanical advance from the jump...and a counterbalanced crank...

[pinball73]

Harryc! this food for thought! when I change the spark lever it would basically, in a round about way put more load on the cam in advance & less in retard! this would cause the noise too change, will need too think this one out! thanks

[pinball73]

I think if & when I go back into the engine I will install the automatic timing advance system, for two reasons. it would regulate the timing that was needed by the engine when it needed it! it would also eliminate the chance of mistakenly advancing the timing too much & beating on the Babbitt in the rods & mains.

[100IH]

I don't know about "eliminating the chance of" . When you go to the automatic timing gismo, you still have to do the dance of where is the timing at idle and high speed with no regard for load on acceleration and climbing a hill. The first thing I would check if I were there is; the starting point at idle, Very Slow and not much power. After that, you have about 30-32 deg. to work with which is about 1/2 way down on the lever, maybe 2/3.

[pinball73]

got a silly question? what are the dimensions of a 1929 model a radiator? it is hard to get a accurate measurement while it is on the car with the shroud & all!

[pinball73]

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well I probably found a lot of my noise! was planning on rebuilding the transmission this winter, so I got started on it a few days ago! took the top shift tower off & felt pretty good on what I am seeing! got the transmission out & apart & found the u-joint is toast! I have never seen one worn as bad as this one. the next thing I find is you can slide the u-joint forward & back just about 1/2"! who ever was the last one was that was in there had put a oversized lock washer & a soft iron flat washer to hold the u-joint on the out put gear! I have no idea how it even stayed on there, the washer was bent back enough I could almost remove the u-joint without removing the bolt! not quite but almost. can't weight to get it to gather & see what changes!

[Benson]

Hey Pinball,

Here is what happened to me ... might help you out.

06-03-2017, 01:14 PM #3


________________________________________
My coupe suddenly started to make noise in 2nd gear about 5000 miles after a complete rebuild. All new shafts, all new Mark gears, bearings and etc.

Looking back on it the only thing NOT replaced were the three needle bearings because they looked good. (HINT ... HINT)

I lived with the noise by keeping speeds low in 2nd gear and drove another 5000 miles.

Finally got tired of noise and tore it down.

Found that one of the needle bearings inside the cluster gear had come apart so one end of cluster gear was "flopping around".

Second/third slider gear and the corresponding gear on the cluster were "all chewed up".

These were brand new Mark USA gears!

I wonder if maybe I could have saved the 2nd gear and cluster by taking it apart as soon as the noise started! Your call !!

Steve at Bert's said it was the noisiest transmission that he had ever heard.

On the surviving needle bearings you can see that the needles are worn to "Points" where they fit into the holes in the "cage". Other wise the bearings look new.
________________________________________
Last edited by Benson; 06-03-2017 at 01:28 PM.

Originally Posted by pinball73

well I probably found a lot of my noise! was planning on rebuilding the transmission this winter, so I got started on it a few days ago! took the top shift tower off & felt pretty good on what I am seeing! got the transmission out & apart & found the u-joint is toast! I have never seen one worn as bad as this one. the next thing I find is you can slide the u-joint forward & back just about 1/2"! who ever was the last one was that was in there had put a oversized lock washer & a soft iron flat washer to hold the u-joint on the out put gear! I have no idea how it even stayed on there, the washer was bent back enough I could almost remove the u-joint without removing the bolt! not quite but almost. can't weight to get it to gather & see what changes!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by pinball73

Kohnke did not check for twisted or bent rod, generally they all looked the same, laid out flat, but that is about as far as I went there. as for wrist pin clearance, the machine shop took care of all that I presume when they put in the new wrist pin bushings, they are supposed to be good & I trust them!

You can't tell by looking at rods and see if there out of alignment, they have to be put on a Rod Aligner, to check for twist, bend, and off set.

As far as wrist pins go, any movement that can be felt, is no good. The clearance should be right on at .005.

Hope you find the problem.

Herm.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I know Herm meant .0005"

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by pinball73

well I probably found a lot of my noise! was planning on rebuilding the transmission this winter, so I got started on it a few days ago! took the top shift tower off & felt pretty good on what I am seeing! got the transmission out & apart & found the u-joint is toast! I have never seen one worn as bad as this one. the next thing I find is you can slide the u-joint forward & back just about 1/2"! who ever was the last one was that was in there had put a oversized lock washer & a soft iron flat washer to hold the u-joint on the out put gear! I have no idea how it even stayed on there, the washer was bent back enough I could almost remove the u-joint without removing the bolt! not quite but almost. can't weight to get it to gather & see what changes!

In your first post, you mentioned removing the spark wires one at a time, however that didn’t change the sound of the engine. Was the “sound” there when you weren’t moving? If so, then it seems like a second problem, other than a bad u joint. ???

[goodcar]

Originally Posted by pinball73

ok guys I am new at this, but hear we go! I have done a complete rebuild of my 1929 ford model a engine! it runs great sounds real good until I get it warmed up & on the highway in third gear at what I am going to call a cruse, 35 mph or so. not giving it any gas & not letting off of it either! I get a noise I don't like & don't think is normal! at this point I can retard the spark lever & it almost goes away! can't think it is spark knock ! it sounds too much like something mechanical! tried removing the plug wires one at a time & it makes no difference in the sound of the engine, so don't think it is rod,main, or piston! it has been bored 100 over new pistons, rings & valves have been re done. Babbitt is good & crank has been replaced. oil pressure is good, I would like more, but that is what they say it should have, thought pistons might be touching the head, so I scoped the cylinders & find no evidence of this happening! this thing has me barking at the moon! has any body got any ideas? I need help

Another possibility is loose center cam journal. Might need to add cam bearings.

[pinball73]

well, problem fixed I think! all new bearings in the transmission, new input shaft, replaced the cluster gear & second & high sliding gear, new cluster & reverse idler pins & a new u-joint! while doing all of this I also found the bracket that bolts the alternator too the block was loose & it had to be making noise! have not had it in the road yet, but pretty shore the noise is gone

[pinball73]

got a question! I filled the transmission with Lucas gear additive, only! I was told that every one uses STP! the Lucas is about the viscosity as the STP, but it will not foam & it sticks to the gears better. what does every body think about doing this?

[100IH]

STP is not a lubricant it is an additive and so is Lucas. So, do two modifiers make a lubricant, not likely. Today's equivalent of 600 W is known as Steam Cylinder Oil and you will only find it at the local distributor, not at the auto parts store. Do a search here for "600 W". Remember, when your back on the road with your ears on, the consensus on timing was NOT all the way down. That is the sound of the engine crying and saying; back off, that's too much.

[Fred K-OR]

Most of the vendors carry 600 W oil.

[eagle]

Lucas oil stabilizer works great as transmission grease. Shifts smooth as silk. Much better than the 600W oil I got from a vendor.

[CT Jack]

It could be a loose timing gear nut. A simple test is to insert timing pin into timing hole while the engine is running at idle speed. Slowly push pin against gear if the noise goes away it means either the nut is loose or the gear is worn. Sometimes a worn 2 piece gear will produce this type of noise.