Overdrive solenoids

[zoegrant]

TWO QUESTIONS.....Does the wire that is attached to the coil go to the ground of the solenoid ?
Can a 12V solenoid be used on a 6v electrical system ?

[40cpe]

The wire from the coil does go to the ignition grounding wire of the solenoid through the kickdown switch. The kickdown switch creates a gap in the wire until the kickdown switch is activated, thus closing the circuit and momentarily grounding the ignition. If you run the wire from the coil straight to the solenoid, it will kill the engine when the overdrive is engaged. I have heard of people using 12v on a 6v solenoid, but I don't think there is enough voltage to operate a 12v solenoid on 6v. Never tried it, though.

[zoegrant]

Thanks for the explanation.... was trying to determine why the white wire from my coil to the solenoid was a different color at solenoid which is a green wire. I completely missed the fact that it had to go to the kickdown first and hence the different color originating thru the kickdown where the color changed to green.

[zoegrant]

Also... have think I have isolated the problem in my OD setup to be in the solenoid.
When I ground the THWS to the engine block and turn the key on, the fuse at the relay glows an orange color and shows power going to the solenoid at the blue wire on the relay...When I do the same with the wire removed from the solenoid under the car the fuse does not get hot and the blue wire to the solenoid from the relay still shows power.
My theory...there is a short in the solenoid.

[Anteek29]

Z...At this point my choice would be to pull the solenoid and perform a bench test.

NOTE: I have updated my last comment in #19.

[Hot Rod Reverend]

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Hands down - your solenoid is not engaging. The "free-wheeling" comes from the cable being pushed in, sliding the shift rail into position like it should. The transmission is just waiting for the electric circuit to kick the solenoid into action, thereby engaging the pawl.

Have you tried swapping the two wires from the solenoid? sometimes these solenoids are rebuilt and the wire leads swapped - it can fool you. Worth it one more time before you pull it out and bench test it.

[zoegrant]

Anteek29.....I did bench test it and it tested good, The engagement plunger shot out strongly.
Hot rod rev.....even though the solenoid is now out of the car, I will try reversing the wires on the solenoid to see what happens. Will keep you posted.

[40cpe]

The reverend has a point: If your hot wire from the relay is connected to ignition ground wire (#6) on the solenoid , it is a direct ground. According to the schematic, the hot wire from the relay should be connected to the wire marked (4).

EDIT: I was typing at the same time as you. Bench testing good is a good sign. It would be easy to reverse the wires under the car, so careful tracing of the wires would be in order.

[zoegrant]

HRR...tried it as you suggested...still not engaging....but solenoid works perfect out of the car....I am going to look over everything again tomorrow.
THANKS TO ALL FOR SUGGESTIONS

[zoegrant]

These are the two test I am using to test the solenoid....
#1...solenoid out of the car, jumper hooked to power NEG terminal of 6v battery to power terminal #4 on the solenoid. The next jumper from POS ground of battery to the ears of the solenoid.
SOLENOID THEN WORKS.

#2...under car with solenoid in my hand. A heavy ground wire to ear of solenoid and to a clean tranny bolt and the hot wire (blue) coming down from the relay to the #4 terminal of the solenoid....SOLENOID DOES NOT WORK.

The THSW switch has been jumped at the relay to a ground and the relay solenoid blue wire shows power with the test light at the relay with the key is on....the blue solenoid wire is tested under the car with a test light and is hot...Still nothing happens.

[40cpe]

are you using the car battery to bench test the solenoid? You should put a volt meter on the hot wire under the car. It is sounding like you have a bad connection somewhere in the circuit that is loosing a lot of voltage before it gets to the solenoid or your car battery is weak.

[Anteek29]

X2 what 40cpe said.

[zoegrant]

good morning ..just checked the voltage on car.
I haven't charged the battery in a couple of weeks but I just put it on the maintenance charger just now.
I am using the car`s battery to bench test the solenoid.
The battery reads 6.22v
The end of the relay solenoid wire (blue) reads 6.02v
The hot wire under the car 5.99v.

[40cpe]

Is the 5.99 reading with the solenoid energized? A bad connection will show good voltage until a load is put on it. If that checks good, I would install the solenoid and run the car up to engagement speed, verify that the governor is activating the relay, and test drive the car. With the car running at 30+ mph (try second gear) the generator should be charging to 7-7.5 v. The increased voltage and the movement of the gears in the car might engage the solenoid. If that doesn't work, I would run a 12 gauge wire from the battery hot terminal through a 30 amp toggle switch straight to the solenoid and test drive it. If that works, there is a weak connection in the original circuit. If it doesn't work, I'm out of ideas.

[zoegrant]

Gene....The 5.99 reading under the car it without the solenoid installed...just a multimeter test on the end of the blue solenoid wire that is just hanging down loose under the car and the other multimeter lead wire hooked to a ground. .
I will run a test on the governor with a test light hooked to the blue wire and see if the light is activated at around 30mph. The car will be on jack stands in my garage.

[rotorwrench]

With the firewall relay energized, the blue wire should read battery voltage. If voltage is dropped some, it's due to resistance of the wire, crusty terminal connection, or the relay points are getting crusty. The relay activation will also take some power but it shouldn't be much. Are you jumpering the ground path to the governor connection to energize the relay or just jumpering the THSW terminal to ground? You shouldn't have to run the governor up to on speed unless you just want to test the switch in there.

If your operating solenoid is well grounded to it's case then the blue wire at the #4 terminal on the solenoid should get it to kick out the plunger.

6.22 is normal voltage for a 6-volt battery. I just hope it's got normal capacity. A high rate discharge test or turning the lights on with a good light output will test your battery capacity. If you hit the starter with the lights on then they will dim a bit but if they dim way down then there may be a battery problem.

[Anteek29]

Originally Posted by zoegrant

Gene....The 5.99 reading under the car it without the solenoid installed...just a multimeter test on the end of the blue solenoid wire that is just hanging down loose under the car and the other multimeter lead wire hooked to a ground. .
I will run a test on the governor with a test light hooked to the blue wire and see if the light is activated at around 30mph. The car will be on jack stands in my garage.

You are really tenacious...keep searching for the culprit. We want to know too

[zoegrant]

..tested the governor in the car in this manor....

I ran a long 10ga wire from the solenoid side of the relay into the inside of my car with a test light hooked to the end of the wire.
The car is on jack stands and I brought the car up to 35 MPH...the governor did not activate the relay so I did not have any power to test light.
The governor tested good on the bench with the test light hooked to it and the governor being spun using a wire wheel against the gear causing the test light to come on, which it did.
So governor is good.
The two things I feel are good are that the GOVENOR and the SOLENOID are good.
The KICKDOWN switch has power at both forward terminals but it will not kickdown to direct drive.
A question....the wire from the Governor sends power to the forward drivers side kickdown terminal.....then the power goes to the relay from there to the THSW terminal on the relay and then across the relay fuse to activate the solenoid wire...IS THIS CORRECT ?

IS THERE A WAY THE RELAY CAN BE BENCH TESTED ???

[40cpe]

The governor GROUNDS the relay coil which then pulls the points closed to send power to the solenoid. It does not produce or transmit power or voltage. It does the same thing as your grounding test lead on the bench test. The power comes through the ignition switch to the fuse on the relay. The two terminals on kickdown switch closest to the mounting stem are for the governor. Those two terminals should show no (or little) resistance when tested with an ohm meter. The terminals on the other end of the switch should test open. A test light is not the tool to use testing this switch.

You effectively bench tested your relay by putting a ground jumper to the THSW terminal with the ignition switch on and checked for voltage on the solenoid terminal. Call me anytime.

[rotorwrench]

The ground path for the relay has to go through the kick down switch to get the continuity between the governor switch and the THSW terminal on the relay. The switch has to be correctly wired. The two terminals that are closest to the floor are the ones to use for the relay control. The kick down switch also has to have continuity between those two terminals since they are normally closed. The two terminals farthest from the floor are strictly for the ground pathway to kill the ignition coil but they are normally open until the kickdown is pushed all the way by the throttle pedal so there should be no continuity there until the kickdown function is needed.

When the kick down switch is pushed during operation with OD engaged, the relay circuit is opened to drop the trans out of OD and the ignition coil is killed momentarily until the operating solenoid drops all the way out. This action opens a set of points in the solenoid that allows the ignition to come back to life. It only takes a half a second for all that to happen.

The relay takes power to function. It's hot as soon as the ignition switch is turned on but the ground pathway through the governor switch is open. To test, connect your test light or volt meter to the SOL terminal with the other end to the common ground. Apply power to the IGN terminal on the relay. Ground the THSW terminal to the common ground used for the test and the relay should energize and show system voltage on your volt meter or light up your test light.