Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2014, 07:34 PM   #1
Dbbc
Senior Member
 
Dbbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 114
Default 7 tooth steering box

Aloha,
Just got my first antique car. 29 Model A. I need to rebuild the steering box (7 tooth) because I found a broken bearing, and I took the steering column out, I may as well replace everything.
I am trying to remove the worm gear, but there is a retainer clip in front of it. I canʻt seems to be moving the worm gear back to be able to remove the retainer clip.
Any advice?
Also how difficult is it to remove the bushing? I guess you need a press and some kind of metal rod smaller in diameter than the bushing and press the bushing out?
Any ideas or advice is greatly appreciated.
mahalo
Dbbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:39 PM   #2
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 4,160
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Do you intend to keep the car "original" for judging? Or do you just want a reliable (and safe) driver to go get ice cream in?

If a driver, go the easy route and find a 2 tooth steering box. MUCH easier to repair and keep in optimal steering condition. And you probably will be able to recycle most of the parts.

If you must keep it original, probably best to replace ALL the guts in the steering, including the sector and worm. This can be a financial hit - but almost essential to making it work to best action. And even so, you have the risk of mis-mated parts and you may not be entirely satisfied with how "tight" the steering is - or stays.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-15-2014, 07:47 PM   #3
Dbbc
Senior Member
 
Dbbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 114
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Aloha,
Ice cream sound good. Being my first antique car I would like to try, at least this time around to keep it as original as possible. I understand thing would be easier with other steering boxes, but at this time I will refurbish the 7 tooth steering box. Its out of the car, taken apart and the parts are on order.
I am just afraid to damage anything and would like to have advice from people who went thru the process.
mahalo
Dbbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 08:25 PM   #4
rtruax
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 33
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Les Andrews book, Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook Vol 1, is a valuble resource for this (and many other) projects. Mr. Andrews step by step instructions will lead you through the process of rebuilding your steering gear. go for it. Yes, there arer easier ways to go. But there is also satisfaction in doing it ourself.
RT
rtruax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 11:28 AM   #5
Dbbc
Senior Member
 
Dbbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 114
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Aloha,
Yes I do have the book, but I need some more practical help. The worm gear is press on and then there is a retainer clip. However I cannot seem to be able to remove the clip because the worm gear is over it. Do I have to press the old worm gear further on the shaft, then remove the clip and then press the worm gear off the shaft?
Can anyone who went thru the process give me some pointers.

mahalo
Dbbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:00 PM   #6
wrndln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 5,158
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Don't quote me on this, but I have heard that like you stated, the worm gear needs to be pressed a little to expose the keeper so it can be removed. Once the keeper is removed, the worm gear can be pressed off. This is not an easy task as the worm is really tight on the shaft and it hard to hold the shaft to press the worm gear off. I don't know of a good method to hold the shaft to press the worm off. I had a couple worms replaced by different machine shops and both shops did a cruddy job - gouging up the shafts in the process. I decided to buy a new shaft and worm gear already installed from a parts supplier. The parts were made in Argentina (cringe), but unlike part made there in the 70's and 80's, the machining and fit were excellent. The shaft/worm gear worked very well.
Rusty Nelson
wrndln is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:04 PM   #7
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,891
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbbc View Post
Aloha,
Yes I do have the book, but I need some more practical help. The worm gear is press on and then there is a retainer clip. However I cannot seem to be able to remove the clip because the worm gear is over it. Do I have to press the old worm gear further on the shaft, then remove the clip and then press the worm gear off the shaft?
Can anyone who went thru the process give me some pointers.

mahalo
Pressing the worm on and off is tricky. I suggest a search here for "worm" and you'll find many ways to DIY, as well as descriptions of special tools. You can also buy a new shaft with a new gear already in place from Bratton's or Snyder's.
__________________
Ray Horton, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:49 PM   #8
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 4,160
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Quote:
Originally Posted by 700rpm View Post
Pressing the worm on and off is tricky. I suggest a search here for "worm" and you'll find many ways to DIY, as well as descriptions of special tools. You can also buy a new shaft with a new gear already in place from Bratton's or Snyder's.
Getting the worm off on a 2 tooth (my experience) is relatively easy.

You get a piece of 1" black iron pipe a little longer than the shaft, and put the shaft down the pipe with the worm at the top. You then BANG the pipe, shaft and worm down on the pavement (or something more solid) and inertia of motion causes the shaft to leave the worm.

My investigations of putting the worm ON revealed the difficulties: it's very easy to "fold" the shaft while exposing it to high levels of force necessary to put the worm on.

You need to support the shaft nearly it's full length with some sort of "reinforcement" - possibly a thick wall tube similar to the removal, or possibly "backer-uppers" made of structural channel with the shaft sandwiched between.

Someone here indicated an easier method. Using a tap you fine thread the interior diameter of the shaft. Then using a high strength bolt or all thread and a nut, you use THAT to PULL the shaft into the worm.

A hollow hydraulic ram would make this effort even easier.

I thought this was a pretty slick dodge. The threaded portion of the shaft makes NO difference in it's action or even much on its strength.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 01:34 PM   #9
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,891
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe K View Post
Getting the worm off on a 2 tooth (my experience) is relatively easy.

You get a piece of 1" black iron pipe a little longer than the shaft, and put the shaft down the pipe with the worm at the top. You then BANG the pipe, shaft and worm down on the pavement (or something more solid) and inertia of motion causes the shaft to leave the worm.

My investigations of putting the worm ON revealed the difficulties: it's very easy to "fold" the shaft while exposing it to high levels of force necessary to put the worm on.

You need to support the shaft nearly it's full length with some sort of "reinforcement" - possibly a thick wall tube similar to the removal, or possibly "backer-uppers" made of structural channel with the shaft sandwiched between.

Someone here indicated an easier method. Using a tap you fine thread the interior diameter of the shaft. Then using a high strength bolt or all thread and a nut, you use THAT to PULL the shaft into the worm.

A hollow hydraulic ram would make this effort even easier.

I thought this was a pretty slick dodge. The threaded portion of the shaft makes NO difference in it's action or even much on its strength.

Joe K
Heh-heh. Joe, that's what I call "tricky"!
__________________
Ray Horton, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 07:59 PM   #10
Rowdy
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80
Posts: 4,893
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Use a piece of pipe as a slide hammer to move the worm on a 7 tooth. Remove the retainer and the use the pipe again to remove it from the shaft. Not a real tight fit like the 2 tooth. Rod
__________________
Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!
Rowdy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 01:10 PM   #11
Dbbc
Senior Member
 
Dbbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 114
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Aloha,
Sliding hammer is a very good idea, I will try it.
mahalo
Dbbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 09:47 PM   #12
Bruce,Upstate NY
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Odessa, NY
Posts: 385
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

I use Rowdy's system. Pipe used as a slide hammer.Works well.
Bruce,Upstate NY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 02:29 PM   #13
Dbbc
Senior Member
 
Dbbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 114
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Aloha,
Anyone has any idea how hard the bushing are pressed in the steering column?
I have a "press" made off a 15 tons jack, I am sure that is more than enough but I would like to know how hard I have to press the bushing, just to know what to expect if I decide to trying on myself... before I break everything.
Mahalo for any suggestions.
daniel
Dbbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 04:10 AM   #14
shedman
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 14
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

I have the same problem you have. For some reason, the top thrust bearing failed and spilled its innards into the box knackering the spline slightly at the top of the worm. I have tried to move the worm up the spline to release the lock ring and then to remove the worm. My method was similar to Rowdy's suggestion. I put the steering wheel nut on the shaft level with the end of the thread. I then placed a hardwood block on the concrete floor beneath my bench vice, clamped the shaft loosely in the vice with the worm a few inches above the top of the vice, placed a gash washer on to the worm, then a piece of 1inch steel water pipe about 6inches long. With a 4lb lump hammer, I gave it a couple of hits. Unfortunately, nothing moved so I still have the problem and do not want to damage anything else as the worm and sector are like new. Have you had any success, or have any other ideas?
shedman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2014, 12:33 PM   #15
Dbbc
Senior Member
 
Dbbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 114
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Aloha,
I was able to remove the worm gear from the steering shaft using a sliding pipe.
However at first nothing moved, I then saw that some part of metal were embedded between the worm gear and the shaft groves (at the steering wheel end). I removed all the small piece of metal then I had to push the worm gear tighter to the shaft in order to remove the worm retainer clip which was kind of embedded under the worm gear (is that the case with yours?). I clear the retainer clip and removed it and then slid the pipe down the shaft and was able to slide the worm gear off, fairly easily.
Now I am facing the problem of removing the bushing inside the steering box.
I have made a jig and will try in the next couple of day to remove the busing.
Will let you know if successful.

In short make sure that the grove on both side of the worm gear are clean.
Dbbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2014, 02:04 AM   #16
Dbbc
Senior Member
 
Dbbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 114
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Aloha,
Got it. Got the steering box bushing out, the one inside the steering box for the steering axle. I spend a lot of time figure out who to get it out, finally I came out with a solution by building a jig. Used a couple of treaded rod with a metal plate on each end. One plate resting on the bottom of the steering box and on the other end the end plate is pushing on a pipe clamp that is pushing the busing out.Than I crank the bolt on one end until there was quite a bit of pressure on the bushing, but it wouldn't budge, so I use a sledge and tap the plate that put the pressure on the pipe clamp and the the bushing started to come out. I then keep on cranking the nuts until the bushing completely came out.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jig 1.jpg (54.6 KB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg jig 2.jpg (55.8 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg jig 3.jpg (43.0 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg jig 4.jpg (57.0 KB, 103 views)
Dbbc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 10:23 PM   #17
gmc4hire
Junior Member
 
gmc4hire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
Posts: 14
Red face Re: 7 tooth steering box

Ok, I am in the psocess of rebuilding my 7 tooth steering box. I was looking at the sector shaft. It is an undrilled replacement. Surprise as the sector housing wasn't drilled & tapped for a grease fitting. My question is, why can't I drill the sector shaft as original. Seems to me oil from the gear box will make its way to the sector area anyway. Has anyone tried this? And why aren't the sector shafts provided with the oil holes any more.
gmc4hire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 04:02 AM   #18
Fullraceflathead
Senior Member
 
Fullraceflathead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Chillicothe, Missouri
Posts: 1,155
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

This is a video I made replacing the bushings in my 7 tooth steering box while still in the Pickup.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=...1kpxH2TLliMjIX
__________________
"If I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses."
-Henry Ford

"Primitive technology is not a design flaw"


1928 Ford Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Gordon Smith Air Compressor
1941 Willy's Pickup
1960 Thunderbird-For Sale
1964 Buick Riviera 2x4 425
1965 Pontiac GTO, 455 Super Duty
2004 Dodge Ram SRT-10, V-10 Viper
1977 Charger Jet Boat,460 Ford,Jacuzzi Jet
Front Engine Nostalgia Dragster,Supercharged 296 "Fullrace Flathead" Ford
Engine Build up on DVD ask
Fullraceflathead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2020, 12:13 PM   #19
DBrer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Washington
Posts: 175
Default Re: 7 tooth steering box

Thanks for the video, that was great. I have a 7 tooth and the process you did was very informative.
DBrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 PM.