Flywheel housing

[Borninthefifties]

Aloha all, I'm new to the "A" world. Just acquired mine in August of 18 from E-Bay. Seller wasn't totally honest and I've been having some issues and trying to work through them. What I need is a source of information with step by step directions to replace the flywheel housing on my 1931 coupe. It's badly cracked around the starter. Bought a new one from Snyders.



Thanks for any help

[Bob C]

Do you have this book? https://modelastore.com/books/techni...roduct_id=6046


Bob

[Patrick L.]

Yep, that manual sure helps. I'm one that prefers to remove the rear end and transmission. I also prefer to leave the spring attached [ that spring can be dangerous if not handled correctly].

[Borninthefifties]

Thank you both

[kenparker]

If the rear end and the transmission are removed - the engine is still attached to the Flywheel housing which is attached to the motor mounts which are attached to the frame. Also to get the housing off the flywheel will have to b e removed - a 65 lb toe crusher.


In this case I wouldd prefer to remove the engine for easy access to the flywheel and then the housing. LessAndreews book is an emense help in this case.

[Borninthefifties]

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Thank you Mr. Parker, I do have the Les Andrew book and have started the steps to pull the engine. It seems that he is going to split the engine from the transmission at the bell housing. Is that what you would do, or would you remove it all intact then remove the transmission, etc? Do you think it necessary to remove the intake and exhaust manifolds?

[Joe K]

I have always just pulled the engine/transmission together. Manifolds in place, transmission top removed/covered. If you have room to slip off the brake and clutch pedals this will help.

DON'T forget to undo the wish-bone attachment. I scratched my head over why the engine wouldn't come out with EVERY OTHER attachment removed - until I discovered I "missed" that one once. (My wife still laughs.)

Spark plug No. 3 hole using a dead spark plug converted into lifting eye. Sheet metal cover for transmission held by bolts.

Joe K

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Borninthefifties

Thank you Mr. Parker, I do have the Les Andrew book and have started the steps to pull the engine. It seems that he is going to split the engine from the transmission at the bell housing. Is that what you would do, or would you remove it all intact then remove the transmission, etc? Do you think it necessary to remove the intake and exhaust manifolds?

Actually you are going to split the engine at the flywheel housing and the clutch (bell) housing. The clutch housing will remain bolted to the transmission. The transmission shift tower, the front radius rod (wishbone), and the clutch & brake pedals will NOT need to be removed or disconnected. You will need to remove the throttle assembly as it tries to interfere with the body when the engine is moving forward.

[Borninthefifties]

Aloha all, This is a great forum and I truly appreciate all the feedback.

[kenparker]

one mo thang. When you disconnect the Flywheel cover from the clutch bell housing, as you pull the engine forward the bell housing and transmission will want to drop - not much - maybe 1 to 2 inches. A floor jack under the tranny will hold it up where it belongs. If floor jack in not available a ratchet strap slung under the trans will also hold it up

[Railcarmover]

Don't forget to dial it in..use horseshoe shims with gasket,if it doesnt run true remove horseshoes, if that makes it worse install horseshoes and remove gasket..if that works you can use RTV instead of the gasket.

The reason you dial it in is proper crankshaft/transmission input shaft alignment,critical for smooth shifting and a smooth clutch

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Don't forget to dial it in..use horseshoe shims with gasket,if it doesnt run true remove horseshoes, if that makes it worse install horseshoes and remove gasket..if that works you can use RTV instead of the gasket.

The reason you dial it in is proper crankshaft/transmission input shaft alignment,critical for smooth shifting and a smooth clutch

Picture is misleading since this check MUST be performed with the engine hanging nose down so that any end play in the crankshaft doesn't screw up the measurement of the flywheel housing,

[Railcarmover]

if you have enough crankshaft endplay to throw off the flywheel housing tolerance you have bigger issues than clutch alignment..youll be pouring babbit..

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

if you have enough crankshaft endplay to throw off the flywheel housing tolerance you have bigger issues than clutch alignment..youll be pouring babbit..

The spec for crankshaft end play is OTOO .004" Since you're trying to get the FWH dialed to less than .006", letting the crank move renders the FWH measurements worthless.

[Railcarmover]

Thats where your wrong,crankshaft end play, if present is a fixed deviation,an instant reading change on the indicator,where as mis alignment reads as a ramp increase as you travel to and away from the high side.

[Railcarmover]

In the heavy duty truck world,this process is performed with the engine in the chassis,its a fairly common repair procedure...the same principal applies to the model A.The plane of the housing doesn't change with crankshaft endplay.

[Fhane]

I am a little confused. In post number 11 what is being aligned?

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Thats where your wrong,crankshaft end play, if present is a fixed deviation,an instant reading change on the indicator,where as mis alignment reads as a ramp increase as you travel to and away from the high side.

As you turn the crankshaft to move the dial indicator, the crankshaft can AND WILL move within the end play unless you somehow keep it forced against the thrust bearing. That screws up any measurements where you are using it as a reference. Placing the nose of the engine down keeps the crankshaft forward and allows accurate measurements of the FWH.


That someone has lucked out on a large truck engine has no bearing here:this is a Model A engine we"RE talking about.

[daren007]

Correct the plane does not change. The reading does however.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

.

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Don't forget to dial it in..use horseshoe shims with gasket,if it doesnt run true remove horseshoes, if that makes it worse install horseshoes and remove gasket..if that works you can use RTV instead of the gasket.

The reason you dial it in is proper crankshaft/transmission input shaft alignment,critical for smooth shifting and a smooth clutch

Originally Posted by BillLee/Chandler, TX

The spec for crankshaft end play is OTOO .004" Since you're trying to get the FWH dialed to less than .006", letting the crank move renders the FWH measurements worthless.

Since both of y'all are my friends, I don't really want to take sides in this --AND I want to point out that both of you guys are correct ...however let's look at the overall picture and what is trying to be accomplished. Just as in the case with this Model-A the O/P is discussing, (--and with HD truck engines requiring service) it is a moot point about nosing the engine downward since it would require removing the engine from the chassis to do so. We all know that is not going to happen, so it may be best just to forgo and admit that both of you have valid points.

Additionally, if the mechanic who is indicating the housing is purposely (-or even carelessly) pushing/pulling on the crankshaft during rotation, it is likely that the indicator readings will be flawed however this can also be done when the engine is nosed downward.


So, how perfect does it need to be for this particular application? In restoration work, most good restorers strive for as much perfection as possible in their skill-set however in repair work, they just strive to be as accurate as possible in that particular environment. In this particular environment with the engine still mounted, I would try to get several readings that repeat and then go with it.


.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Fhane

I am a little confused. In post number 11 what is being aligned?

The face of the flywheel housing to the face of the flange on the crankshaft.
In the pictures you can't see the plunger on the back of the dial indicator that is pressing against the face of the FW housing.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Here’s a explanation that helped me understand how to align it.

[daren007]

Don't worry about 6 o'clock. The transmission clutch housing will take care of that.

[Purdy Swoft]

I feel that it is easier to dial in the fly wheel housing with the engine out of the car . I don't like working on my back under the car anymore than I can avoid . I consider one of the main things to remember is the gasket between the engine and the flywheel housing .

[Borninthefifties]

Aloha all, As I said, I'm new to all this. What is this device called and where do I purchase one?

[40 Deluxe]

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It's a magnetic base dial indicator. You can flag down the next tool truck (Mac, Cornwell, etc.) you see, or find a tool supply store. As a last resort look on the internet.

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

It's a magnetic base dial indicator. You can flag down the next tool truck (Mac, Cornwell, etc.) you see, or find a tool supply store. As a last resort look on the internet.

I wonder what the shade tree mechanics did in the 1930's during the depression when they didn't have access to or couldn't afford a tool like the magnetic dial indicator?

David Serrano

[Railcarmover]

Any kind of bar type lash up to insure the flywheel housing is on the same plane as the crankshaft flange,this insures the trasmission input shaft is parallel with the crankshaft.shafts in alignment spin true and allow for smooth clutch action and easier shifting.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by California Travieso

I wonder what the shade tree mechanics did in the 1930's during the depression when they didn't have access to or couldn't afford a tool like the magnetic dial indicator?

David Serrano

Feeler gauges and/or eyeballs!

[Mulletwagon]

Are shims almost always required after a rebuild - and are shims applied to just the top two bolts or to any of the four as required ? I have really bad clutch chatter even though the PO installed all new components including a V8 pressure plate. Thinking flywheel housing alignment may be the culprit.

[Railcarmover]

You can use shims and a gasket,shims without a gasket (sealant),gasket no shims,no shim no gasket. Play with the combinations to find the sweet spot.I went through 5 used flywheel housings before I found a true,uncracked one. Ford had 5 revisions of housings that I know of,the late 31 reinforced one is whats available new from the vendors,and its the best. Going used? when you look at one,hold it with one finger and ring it like a bell with a wrench,if it 'clanks' its cracked.


2nd revision early 28


late 31 ribbed

[Ray in La Mesa]

I'm with BRENT on splitting the flywheel & bell housings & leaving everything else attached. Just don't miss the bottom two bolts that are in between the radius rod arms. You can't remove them completely as the radius rod Y is in the way, so you have to loosen them, pull the engine a bit and then unscrew them the rest of the way.

[goodcar]

Originally Posted by Borninthefifties

Aloha all, I'm new to the "A" world. Just acquired mine in August of 18 from E-Bay. Seller wasn't totally honest and I've been having some issues and trying to work through them. What I need is a source of information with step by step directions to replace the flywheel housing on my 1931 coupe. It's badly cracked around the starter. Bought a new one from Snyders.
Thanks for any help

Unless I missed it, removing the flywheel COULD BE a problem for someone new to this work. I use a block of wood and lightly tap it loose through the starter hole as I rotate the crank. Any other ideas about this??

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by California Travieso

I wonder what the shade tree mechanics did in the 1930's during the depression when they didn't have access to or couldn't afford a tool like the magnetic dial indicator?

David Serrano

We have those same kind of Mechanics today, doing substandard work.

The Ford Garages had the right tools from K.R. Wilson.

Dial Indicator, and all.

It is one of the most important settings on the Model A Motors.

You have to have 4 Sguare points to bolt to, any thing less, will pull it out of alignment.

This can all be done with the shimming of the top two ears.

Herm.