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Old 09-25-2021, 04:54 PM   #1
Tim Ayers
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Default Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

While getting ready for Hershey, I found a few spare starters. One I know that came off a '51 F1. This one has a front bearing plate that is approx. 3/4" thick.

The one I'm planning to use on my motor, has a front plate of approx. 3/8".

I was always under the assumption that starters can be used from '32-'53.

Does anyone know the difference of the starters with the "thick" front bearing plate vs. those with the thinner ones?

Thanks,
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Old 09-25-2021, 06:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

The ones with the thick plate also use a shorter case and I assume armature. Less torque I would guess, I always try to avoid them. Not sure what they came on originally
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:00 PM   #3
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Ford-O-Matic equipped vehicles have a thick front starter plate.


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Old 09-25-2021, 07:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT View Post
Ford-O-Matic equipped vehicles have a thick front starter plate.
This is a two bolt starter like a "regular" one. As mentioned, I pulled it off a F1 pick up.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Thick plate through 1941, then the thin plate from there forward.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
This is a two bolt starter like a "regular" one. As mentioned, I pulled it off a F1 pick up.
Ford-O-Matic starters are two bolt.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Mike,


When was the back plate changed; was that also post '41?
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:55 PM   #8
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

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Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT View Post
Ford-O-Matic starters are two bolt.
I'm thinking of a 6 cly case. Thanks for the correction.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Is one preferred over another?
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Old 09-25-2021, 08:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

I have to add to the confusion. The drive end is the rear end NOT the front,
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Old 09-25-2021, 09:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

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Is one preferred over another?
If one is indeed a Ford-O-Matic starter it will have a longer shaft and different bendix and tooth count. It would be preferred for the automatic.
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Old 09-25-2021, 09:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

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Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT View Post
If one is indeed a Ford-O-Matic starter it will have a longer shaft and different bendix and tooth count. It would be preferred for the automatic.
Yes, Bendix was an odd looking thing. If anyone needs a FOM bendix, I have one free for taking.
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Old 09-25-2021, 10:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Is one preferred over another?

not in my book, whilst the body lengths differ depending on which end plate is used, the field windings and armatures remain the same, so functionally, both types operate the same.
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Old 09-26-2021, 04:52 AM   #14
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

I'll add to the confusion (it's the internet - someone has to). I was working on a flathead starter for a mate a while back (I didn't get pics sorry). It has the electrical connection stud on the front plate, not the side body of the starter.

What made me really notice was that the armature shaft and bearing was larger than a regular starter. Bendix was different too. It was on a flathead powered hotrod and the owner didn't know what the starter originally came from. I wound up fitting a regular starter as I couldn't refurb this unit.

What did it come from - LZ, truck, tractor, or what?

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Old 09-26-2021, 07:14 AM   #15
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
Mike,


When was the back plate changed; was that also post '41?
Dave, I was "speaking" of the rear plate. My mistake...
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Old 09-26-2021, 11:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Another note: You can use the "thin plate" version as part of creating an easy 12V starter setup (using parts from a later Ford V8 starter).

You use the later 12V case and field coils and insert the original armature and thin front plate and you have a nice 12V original looking starter for about $80. I just did this for a 302 CI flathead I helped a friend build.

It took about 1/2 hour to 'Frankenstein' the new starter together - based on a quality 12V rebuilt one from NAPA and my original 6V flathead starter.

Here is a link to the 12V starter from NAPA:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search...609&referer=v2
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Old 09-26-2021, 11:36 AM   #17
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
Another note: You can use the "thin plate" version as part of creating an easy 12V starter setup (using parts from a later Ford V8 starter).

You use the later 12V case and field coils and insert the original armature and thin front plate and you have a nice 12V original looking starter for about $80. I just did this for a 302 CI flathead I helped a friend build.

It took about 1/2 hour to 'Frankenstein' the new starter together - based on a quality 12V rebuilt one from NAPA and my original 6V flathead starter.

Here is a link to the 12V starter from NAPA:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search...609&referer=v2

Thanks, Dale. I have that 12v unit as well and I am looking to do the same.
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Old 09-26-2021, 01:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

fortyonerag, Over the years I've built up several 12 volt starter motors to suit V8's. A few of them I have built from big Lucas starters; they are probably out of trucks, anyway, they share the same physical dimensions as regular V8starters, I have to modify the armature shaft to accept V8 bendix, however, the electrical connection on these is through the front plate, not the side as in V8 units...one other [good] feature of these is the end of the arm shaft protrudes through the front plate and is machined into a square...should the starter ever jam, it is easy to turn the armature to disengage the jammed bendix drive.
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Old 09-27-2021, 06:57 AM   #19
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Brian, yes, it did have a square machined into the end shaft. Thought at the time what a great idea. A Lucas truck starter most likely.

Many thanks for this.
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Old 09-27-2021, 08:16 AM   #20
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Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Mike,


It was the end of the motor that is exposed when installed that I was wondering about (the end with the brushes for the armature).



Thanks.
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