Found a crack in the block

[Bolts]

I was pressure testing a 59AB block when I discovered a very thin crack up inside the middle exhaust port. It's close to the outside. Is it possible to fix this by boring the port out slightly and inserting a press fitted sleeve?

[RalphM]

I've never heard of doing it that way,
Most methods are going to be pinning, or welding.
Can you get at it very easy?

[Henry Floored]

Originally Posted by Bolts

I was pressure testing a 59AB block when I discovered a very thin crack up inside the middle exhaust port. It's close to the outside. Is it possible to fix this by boring the port out slightly and inserting a press fitted sleeve?

Can you post a picture? Hard for me to visualize this.

[Bolts]

Ralph I don't think you can get at it with a drill. A welder can reach it, but I've heard welding isn't a very good practice, don't know. I've also heard if you get it hot you can weld it using cast iron rods. Have you ever had success welding cast iron?

[Bolts]

The crack is a tiny line slightly above the casting mark and to the left of it. In one picture the blob on the crack is from the Windex as it continues to bubble after I wiped most of it away so I could take the pictures.

[alanwoodieman]

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I would think about trying the press fit sleeve. I can see where that might just do. never seen one crack there before

[Bored&Stroked]

I would first clean that area with a die grinder and sandpaper roll and try to determine how much material there is to work with. I use a sonic tester with a probe that is designed to go into ports. Without knowing this, might bore into that area and find you've got nothing to push the sleeve into. If the block was otherwise good, I might see if there is a furnace block welder in the area (which are getting hard to find). Or, somebody like lockn' stitch could pin it.

[JSeery]

The problem I see with just attempting a sleeve is it doesn't stop the crack progression. It needs to be drilled at each end of the crack to stop it before attempting any other repairs. If you were just wanting to seal the leak a water coolant sealer would do that, but again there is nothing to stop the crack from progressing with the heating and cooling cycles of the engine.

[RalphM]

I would think it could be welded.
Yes I have welded exhaust manifolds, some with great success, some not. I have never welded a block before, but have seen it done successfully.

I think if you don't want to try a sealer or such, then it might be saved by welding.

[rotorwrench]

Cast iron is tricky to weld. It has to be heated as a complete block to a very high temp before welding begins then cooled slowly after completion. It could be brazed too but pinning may be a thought.

[flatheadmurre]

Tricky to pin something in a tube cracked across...can´t get any locks in there to keep it from getting wider.
How about a threaded sleave if there is meat enough in the walls...that would keep it from openin up...nothing like a good challenge !

[tubman]

I agree with "JSeery" about stopping the crack progression. Getting a drill in there would seem to be problematic.

[Mart]

I'm struggling to think how I'd go about fixing it, but both sides of the metal are relatively low pressure areas, the water jacket, less than 15 psi, the exhaust only has pressure due to resistance. I'd take a chance and vee it out and cold weld it. I'd then use some leak stopper in the water jacket. I must admit I'd only try and repair that one if I had absolutely no other choice. I would also say I'd not throw a lot of money at it too.

I'd think about brazing it, but the pre heat would be really difficult.

Mart.

[rotorwrench]

Cast iron really sucks up the heat so it would take a while to get it to a dull red in the 1200 *F range. A person has to use a lot of O/A gas to get it there. Plenty of borax powder flux would be needed too. Cool down would have to be as slow as possible. I don't know how thin the casting is in that port either so a sonic check would be a good idea as previously mentioned. Brazing alloys don't like aluminum oxide or other grit grinding products so clean up would be better by filing and wire brushing. Not a job for the faint at heart.

[Ross F-1]

What was the test pressure? Were you testing with air? Was there any sign that water was actually leaking there? I wouldn't be inclined to do anything unless there was really a problem evident.

[Ronnie]

Cut your losses and find another block.Any repair here would need to be done by someplace that has the skill set and the cost would be more than another block.The chances of being successful on your own with welding,pins and other attempts with a sucess are very limited. Just my 2¢

R

[19Fordy]

If you can drill a small hole at each end of the crack to prevent spreading, this might work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K85MH9Z5FPU
It's worth a try. Then pressure check the block if possible.
Also, peruse this info:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...engine%20block

[Ggmac]

I use to weld ALMOST any cast iron by getting a bonfire going around the part to be welded , drag the part out ( after a good heating ) weld it up using a nickel rod , put it back inthe Fire and cover with ashes , coal etc , let cool naturally till the fire is out and cool . Pray it doesn't rain !

[rotorwrench]

Preheat is usually around 800* F and that is a good temp to start and stop at. Only the local weld area would need to get up to 1200 F or so. The braze would have to be left thick around the crack area to give it some strength. This might choke the port down a bit but I doubt it would hurt the performance much. Just getting a drill in there to relieve the crack would be tough. I have a 90 degree drill that uses 1/4"-28 drill bits but even with a short bit I don't know if it would fit in there.

Electric arc welding changes the local surface temp a lot and real fast so that is what can do the cracking since the temp is all localized and the rest is cold unless the block is preheated properly. Ronnie may have the best advice on this. This is not an easy fix and few if any would guarantee it either.

[cmbrucew]

http://www.accastingrebuilders.com/index.html
This is a man we used in the late 80's for welding diesel blocks.
Good experience. Glad to see he is still welding blocks.
Bruce

[rotorwrench]

There are few fusion welders around anymore. That is one uncomfortable way to make a living. I imagine they charge accordingly. This is the only way to repair the unobtanium parts though.

[Bolts]

Test pressure was 5 PSI. Bubbles showed up when sprayed with Windex.
Fusion welding is out. Contacted Lock-n-stitch. They said the sleeve MIGHT work but wasn't anything they could do and said they couldn't offer any kind of solution.
Not going to attempt to braze or weld it.
I agree with Ronnie. A two to three hundred dollar block would be a better than paying that much for a sleeve if I could get it done for that.
Thanks everyone.

[Timsalways]

I discovered a small crack on my block the first time I dropped the oil pan. Bummer, I thought, it was right where the gasket and pan mated to the block. So I manipulated the gasket to kinda cover it abit. So far so good, the motor is a 28, and my guess is that crack might be older than me. 4 years later and about 3500 miles a year, that old block is still holding up.

[Bored&Stroked]

I agree on finding another block . . .

I had a 32 V8 block furnace welded last year for a cost of about $600 (to fix a broken off piece that I did!). Also, when you heat up a block like this, one has to assume that all machined areas may need to be re-machined - so welding is the first step in a rebuilding process.

The guy 'Maynard' was about 80 years old and the last guy anybody knew who did this type of work. He told me that he gave up trying to teach his skills to the younger crowd - nobody wanted to work in that environment and always just quit. His business just closed this year as he wasn't in good enough health to run it anymore . . .

[Ol' Ron]

Moroso Makes a great stop leak

[Kurt in NJ]

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A sleeve could work, but having seen what happens in the long term to exhaust manifold, and ex port liners some cars had for emission reasons the metal used for the sleeve would have to be better than ordinary steel

even better would be a sleeve with tapered threads like pipe threads, but they would have to be finer so not as much metal would have to be cut away to make them---yes, a custom tap and tapered threaded sleeve

I was trying to think what would have caused this crack, perhaps frost damage

[big job]

I think I would vote for a sleeve. I would bore it on the mill past the end of the crack
press a cast sleeve in there, thoughts are; low water pressure and low exhaust pressure.
Maybe a angle air grinder with a small cut off wheel to the end of crack. We save things
so think of a dentist drill....

[Jack E/NJ]

If it were mine, I'd try to do the minimum needed to quickly make it a decent runner again, first on a stand wet. Try stop-leak only if needed. Then throw it in the car, run it, and try to forget about that crack. But if it'll make you happier, search for that crack-free block while you're tooling around with the old block.

Jack E/NJ

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

If it were mine, I'd try to do the minimum needed to quickly make it a decent runner again, first on a stand wet. Try stop-leak only if needed. Then throw it in the car, run it, and try to forget about that crack. But if it'll make you happier, search for that crack-free block while you're tooling around with the old block.

Jack E/NJ

I like this idea. Or, the dentist type drill on the ends of the crack, clean it real good with a dremel and use J-B Weld..... Mark

[Floyd]

Cast iron can be welded successfully if done correctly. A very large factory here in California remanufactures diesel engine blocks and cylinder heads on a production basis. All cylinder heads will generate cracks between valves and injectors. They can repuddle the entire combustion chamber if necessary . No trick million dollar equipment needed. Heat block up to near reddish head in insulated blanket, takes about 24 hours. Weld with gas and use cast iron rod. (no electric welding and no nickel rod involved) . Cool down over 24 to 48 hours and off to the machining operations. They welcome hobbyist with old cracked blocks etc. They weld, braze and stitch depending on problems.
Many of the big diesel heads go out in Cat, Detroit and Cumming boxes.
It can be done !

[A bones]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Cast iron can be welded successfully if done correctly. A very large factory here in California remanufactures diesel engine blocks and cylinder heads on a production basis. All cylinder heads will generate cracks between valves and injectors. They can repuddle the entire combustion chamber if necessary . No trick million dollar equipment needed. Heat block up to near reddish head in insulated blanket, takes about 24 hours. Weld with gas and use cast iron rod. (no electric welding and no nickel rod involved) . Cool down over 24 to 48 hours and off to the machining operations. They welcome hobbyist with old cracked blocks etc. They weld, braze and stitch depending on problems.
Many of the big diesel heads go out in Cat, Detroit and Cumming boxes.
It can be done !

So,,, good news, any contact information?

[Jack E/NJ]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

>>>Cut your losses and find another block. Any repair here would >>>be more than another block.>>>

Originally Posted by Bolts

>>>I agree with Ronnie. A two to three hundred dollar block would be a better>>>

So where did you get that $200-300 figure for a crack-free block?

Jack E/NJ

[Floyd]

To A-Bones
West Coast Diesel in Ontario Ca. (east of LA) Gooogle for info

[Bolts]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Cast iron can be welded successfully if done correctly. A very large factory here in California remanufactures diesel engine blocks and cylinder heads on a production basis. All cylinder heads will generate cracks between valves and injectors. They can repuddle the entire combustion chamber if necessary . No trick million dollar equipment needed. Heat block up to near reddish head in insulated blanket, takes about 24 hours. Weld with gas and use cast iron rod. (no electric welding and no nickel rod involved) . Cool down over 24 to 48 hours and off to the machining operations. They welcome hobbyist with old cracked blocks etc. They weld, braze and stitch depending on problems.
Many of the big diesel heads go out in Cat, Detroit and Cumming boxes.
It can be done !

Thanks for that Floyd. I'll give them a call.

[Bolts]

Apparently West Coast Diesel in Ontario, CA is a closed business. I called and the phone was out of service. Information on the YELP website confirmed this.

[John R]

Industrial-scale machine shops that remanufacture diesel blocks and heads are out there. I am aware of such shops in Idaho and New Jersey. A search of the internet would likely turn up such a shop somewhat convenient to you.

[Floyd]

I did not know West Coast Diesel had closed. I was out there a couple of years ago. They were the go to guys for all sorts of cast iron repairs. I spent an entire day touring the operation with one of the general managers. Impressive work.
The point is cast iron can be repaired and it does not take any modern million dollar computerized equipment. (Although their 12 foot long capacity crankshaft welder/ grinder was a million dollar investment.)
They use firebrick and big thermal blankets to build an igloo over the block or heads and heat with natural gas burners. The preheat takes up to 24 hours.
The one thing they were adamant about was electric welding will never work for a permanent repair. It is too intense and too concentrated and will crack in service in several months.
There only filler material for weldingl used was cast iron rod with borax for flux. Nickel rod is not a viable solution in their opinion. Oxy/acylene torch is the only method to weld the repair.
Lastly, very slow and controlled cooling must be done (24 to 48 hours) or you will create more cracks than you are fixing. I saw examples of every possible method people have tried and failed.
It can be done ,but is still an art.
This is just their story and I am sticking with it.

[47Merc]

As others have said, clean it up and V groove it with a dremel and use this JB product.
http://www.jbweld.com/collections/82...-b-extremeheat

[Bolts]

I read that the exhaust gas temperature is somewhere between 1000-1500 degrees F. With that in mind, I found this stuff. Has anyone ever used this for anything?

http://www.cotronics.com/WEB%20SHEET...plate%20NP.pdf

[Ronnieroadster]

The JB weld extreme heat epoxy is perfect for this aplication. For less than $10.00 you can save the block no need to find a replacement.