Vinegar flush

[JOHN CT]

I would like to try the vinegar flush treatment for my radiator which the FB talks about. The question I have is do l fill the radiator with 3 gallons of straight vinegar or mix with water? Is it best to drive a round for a couple days or flush right away. And how many times do I have to flush the system to neutralize the vinegar ?
Wow I only had 1 question too ask as I was typing it became 6 questions you gotta laugh!!
Thanks

[Mitch//pa]

Are you having a problem?

[JOHN CT]

No problems. I've been driving my A for 17 years I'm a strong believer of preventative maintenance. I been lucky all these years the A treats me good with no break downs and I would like to the good luck going

[Mitch//pa]

good preventive maintenance is to drain down the cooling system and refill with new 50/50 or mix full strength.
Vinegar is an acid that can do damage as well as loosen stuck crud from the inners of the engine block. Your radiator can act like a big filter catching all this stuff and block it up.
If it isn't broke don't look for trouble, just drain and fill...

I use evaporust only when absolutely necessary to cure a problem using certain flushing techniques...

[Gary/IA]

I have an original radiator on my 29 Tudor that would overheat going up a hill. I used full strength white vinegar and run it for a couple of weeks. I then drained it and refilled with water and added baking soda to help neutralize. I ran this for a few days and then replaced with 50/50 prestone. I am able to drive the same hill with the heat gauge going to about 195 - 200. My test hill was in Arizona and was three miles from bottom to the top and pretty steep in places.

This was my experience, it worked well on my old original radiator. If you do it, be careful when and where you drain the vinegar (ruined my good jeans).

[JOHN CT]

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Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

good preventive maintenance is to drain down the cooling system and refill with new 50/50 or mix full strength.
Vinegar is an acid that can do damage as well as loosen stuck crud from the inners of the engine block. Your radiator can act like a big filter catching all this stuff and block it up.
If it isn't broke don't look for trouble, just drain and fill...

I use evaporust only when absolutely necessary to cure a problem using certain flushing techniques...

Yeah you're right I just might open up a can worms. If it ant broken don't fix it! The destilled water that I put in in the spring looks pretty clear. So I'm just going to drain it out and put in a 50/50 mix to get it ready for another winter.

[Mitch//pa]

I run 50 /50 all year round ,,, prevents rust and corrosion
Good luck

[Synchro909]

It seems the OP has his answer so I don't feel so bad about hijacking the thread.
I'm about to build another engine and the block I have has lots of rust in the water jacket. I'm considering putting an old stoking (my wife's, not mine.) in the top tank to catch the lumpy bits and running vinegar for a while after I install it. Naturally, I will poke and scrape as much out as I can before I spend $ on it. What do you guys think of that?

[SeaSlugs]

my main problem i had with mine was grease and slime clogging the radiator tubes. I had much better luck removing the radiator - front side down, and fillign with simple green overnight or longer. Then most important is backflush from the lower with a pool pump, sump pump, or a garden hose but le tit run for quite awhile. I had globs of grease come out.

Some have had sucess with draino - removes the slime and such.

Hardly any rust flakes came out of my radiator but several blobs of grease and slime did.

I filled the block with vinegar and it didnt have much rust come out either. I was pretty dillegent about getting it out when i was building the engine up but you cant reach everywhere.

If your concerned id at least remove the radiator and fill with simple green concentrate - vinegar treatment is also concentrate.

[gardon]

I have used a pantyhose filter on a couple of engines. They worked well. Just remove and clean occasionally until you quit catching stuff.

[ronn]

Synch, think you will be fine. Have cleaned many rads out with vinegar-remember vinegar is mostly water and about 4% acid. I let it sit for at least a month and start the engine to warm it up a few times a week. I dont even worry about neutralizing either. just flush with clean water when Im through and then do the 50/50 like Mitch says.

did a great job on my 12 Buick and a few A's. Understand, we are talking rust here.
regarding grease buildup, the vinegar is not so effective.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Liquid Dishwasher soap removes GREASE/OIL quite well & doesn't FOAM.
Bill W.

[Terry, NJ]

There is a video in existence that shows two guys testing a radiator. It begins with the guys pouring water through water through the radiator and holding a stopwatch. If I recall correctly (And I don't because if I did, I'd remember more details) the amount they got was around 25 qts a minute. This was done by creating a set up involving a a ladder ,a large funnel and a catch basin. It started off almost completely clogged (4 qts a minute, again IIRC) Find that video, it tells you how how to clean it and how to measure the results. (Youtube, Ford barn ?)
Terry

[jwilliams81]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

There is a video in existence that shows two guys testing a radiator. It begins with the guys pouring water through water through the radiator and holding a stopwatch. If I recall correctly (And I don't because if I did, I'd remember more details) the amount they got was around 25 qts a minute. This was done by creating a set up involving a a ladder ,a large funnel and a catch basin. It started off almost completely clogged (4 qts a minute, again IIRC) Find that video, it tells you how how to clean it and how to measure the results. (Youtube, Ford barn ?)
Terry

Is this the video you are talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93CJVr4_hL4

[C26Pinelake]

Use the 50/50 antifreeze year round and get the benefit of rust inhibitor and water pump lubricant and you are always prepared for winter. Why would you not? Wayne

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

There is a video in existence that shows two guys testing a radiator. It begins with the guys pouring water through water through the radiator and holding a stopwatch. If I recall correctly (And I don't because if I did, I'd remember more details) the amount they got was around 25 qts a minute. This was done by creating a set up involving a a ladder ,a large funnel and a catch basin. It started off almost completely clogged (4 qts a minute, again IIRC) Find that video, it tells you how how to clean it and how to measure the results. (Youtube, Ford barn ?)
Terry

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT TEST on a model A or any car>>>>


"""A quote from Marcos barnyard"""

http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/inlet-1.htm

""Don't be fooled by flow testing! Flow testing your radiator as suggested in several publications will only confirm EXTREME problems. You can block more than 1/3 of the cooling tubes on an original radiator and pass the flow test. The reason for this is the lower water outlet of the radiator is the restrictor. It is designed to limit the speed the water travels through the tubes. More time in the tubes equals cooler water.""

The fill, drop and count method is inaccurate on any radiator antique or modern..
Use your new thermal imager

[burner31]

When you are done with the vinegar treatment be sure to neutralize your sysrem with a box of desolved baking soda, and flush the system real good, twice would not hurt. Been there...done that

[Mitch//pa]

I prefer evapo rust over vinegar,,,, much safer and more effective, reusable....
I'm not cheep

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

I prefer evapo rust over vinegar,,,, much safer and more effective, reusable....
I'm not cheep

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-gallo...ver-96431.html

harbor freight carries the stuff - not too terribly priced especially after a 20% off and free item coupons

[ronn]

vinegar, a couple bucks a gallon-yes I am frugal.............!

[captndan]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

It seems the OP has his answer so I don't feel so bad about hijacking the thread.
I'm about to build another engine and the block I have has lots of rust in the water jacket. I'm considering putting an old stoking (my wife's, not mine.) in the top tank to catch the lumpy bits and running vinegar for a while after I install it. Naturally, I will poke and scrape as much out as I can before I spend $ on it. What do you guys think of that?

If you're going to rebuild the block why not have the machine shop hot tank it.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by burner31

When you are done with the vinegar treatment be sure to neutralize your sysrem with a box of desolved baking soda, and flush the system real good, twice would not hurt. Been there...done that

And when you were there and done that please tell us what happened! Wayne

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by captndan

If you're going to rebuild the block why not have the machine shop hot tank it.

Hot tanking has always been my preferred method, and I did a lot of engine hot tanking in the 80's. Unfortunately EPA doesn't know that the hot tank solution can safely be neutralized and disposed of, so they closed down a lot of them.

If I can't get a lye solution to hot tank the block, then I'd make a block off for the water inlet on the side of the block and fill the engine with Evaporust.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

I prefer evapo rust over vinegar,,,, much safer and more effective, reusable....
I'm not cheep

We don't have evaporust here - well, I've never come across it.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

We don't have evaporust here - well, I've never come across it.

http://www.evapo-rust.com/buy/international/

http://www.evapo-rust.com.au

[Synchro909]

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Hot tanking has always been my preferred method, and I did a lot of engine hot tanking in the 80's. Unfortunately EPA doesn't know that the hot tank solution can safely be neutralized and disposed of, so they closed down a lot of them.

If I can't get a lye solution to hot tank the block, then I'd make a block off for the water inlet on the side of the block and fill the engine with Evaporust.

HMMM, wondering about locking off the outlet and filling with molasses solution after removing all the scaly rust I can.
I don't use a rebuilder so asking him to hot tank it isn't possible. The machine shop I use to do work I can't do myself doesn't have a hot tank - they are machinists.

[updraught]

Evapo rust is available from Supercheap stores here, but outside the US is stupidly expensive.

Metal Rescue seems to be only a few dollars more expensive than the US price, available here from Autobarn stores.

[Synchro909]

Thanks, Updraught.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Thanks, Updraught.

Your welcome

[coupe1942]

Molasses solutions tend to get heavy with residue crud and such. The longer parts are immersed into such a solution, the worse the muck seems to become over time. Me, I'd worry over that debris getting stuck if inside a radiator for a length of time. From my own experience in using molasses to remove rust, I have always had a sludge build up from the junk and rust it removes. Okay to do parts with for rust removal, but I'd reconsider for use in a radiator, myself.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Your welcome

Sorry Mitch, I didn't mean to ignore you.
How do these prices compare to what you pay over there. It seems pricey to me.
1 Litre $100.62 Add to basket (makes 6 litres)
5 Litre $407.90 Add to basket (makes 30 litres)
20 Litre $1623.16 Add to basket (makes 120 litres)

One US gallon is close to 3.8 litres. 5 litres is about 1 1/3 US gallons. That makes it $308.37 a gallon. Maybe Updraught was right about it being stupidly expensive.

[ronn]

at 308. a gallon, wouldnt it make sense to buy a new radiator first?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by ronn

at 308. a gallon, wouldnt it make sense to buy a new radiator first?

If the reason for buying it is for the radiator, then yes. I am talking about cleaning rust from the inside of the block.
This highlights the different price dynamics between here and there.

[Terry, NJ]

Hey! I've got a question! In the AU (Australia?) link, it says "good for firearms" As far as I knew, the Aust. Govt grabbed all the guns. Unless.......Many found their way into ponds, wells, and streams? Inquiring minds would like to know!
Terry

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

http://www.evapo-rust.com/buy/international/

http://www.evapo-rust.com.au

[updraught]

Not sure on those calculations ... but I think it is something like 2x the US price. I was looking at filling a petrol tank.

Maybe to fill a block its not too bad.

There is an Aussie version RustedSolutions but you'd have to pay freight.

[updraught]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Hey! I've got a question! In the AU (Australia?) link, it says "good for firearms" As far as I knew, the Aust. Govt grabbed all the guns. Unless.......Many found their way into ponds, wells, and streams? Inquiring minds would like to know!
Terry

We clean them up and send them to the US. We get a good price from all those Al Capone types. We then spend our days on the French Riviera.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by updraught

we clean them up and send them to the us. We get a good price from all those al capone types. We then spend our days on the french riviera.

....................

:d

[Shortdog]

Home Depot has evapo rust for $22 a gal.

[ronn]

looks like someone might be taking a ride into Sydney this weekend!

nice save Shortdog.

[coupe1942]

In case one does not know it, vinegar can be bought in different strengths or the adidity strength can be increased by mixing it with a lower strength vinegar added into a higher strength vinegar. Regular white distilled vinegar is usually 5% acid, Heinz Cleaning vinegar is 6% acid, apple cider vinegar is maybe 8% acid and pickling vinegar is 10% acid. There are methods as mentioned to increase the acidity both on YouTube and on the net.

I have seen posts on Ahooga over the years in which the person claims that using apple cider vinegar on a carb restoration allowed them to sit the part up on a shelf for years with no residual rust. I can't swear that such works like that as I have not tried it myself.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by coupe1942

In case one does not know it, vinegar can be bought in different strengths or the adidity strength can be increased by mixing it with a lower strength vinegar added into a higher strength vinegar. Regular white distilled vinegar is usually 5% acid, Heinz Cleaning vinegar is 6% acid, apple cider vinegar is maybe 8% acid and pickling vinegar is 10% acid. There are methods as mentioned to increase the acidity both on YouTube and on the net.

I have seen posts on Ahooga over the years in which the person claims that using apple cider vinegar on a carb restoration allowed them to sit the part up on a shelf for years with no residual rust. I can't swear that such works like that as I have not tried it myself.

I can give my experience on this: had about a 2 gallon bucket filld with apple cider vinegar. I threw some cast iron AA rear spring to axle clamshells in along with some regular steel grass clippers.

after a week i pulled them out and both were clean metal no rust, about the time i rinsed the vinegar off the clippers i could watch it lightly rust. The clamshells though I pulled them all out, ashed them all off and picked the best two. Let them dry in the sun - no rust. Painted the best two and put the rest on the shelf in the garage - they are just now starting to rust again in spots and its been at least 1-2 years.

I think it all depends on the metal and cast must do something that steel doesnt....

[coupe1942]

It is likely so, as different metals do react differently in many cases, for sure.

My most notable experience of such was in dipping an air maze cleaner body for a Model A Ford into a vat of muriatic acid once. I had forgotten that acid and aluminum do not mix well and the part I dipped was so very coated with grime that I didn't think about it being aluminum at the time. Needless to say, that large body was "gone in 60 seconds" to coin a phrase. The pot was boiling like a witch's pot foaming over in no time, too. :-(

[Michael M]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

good preventive maintenance is to drain down the cooling system and refill with new 50/50 or mix full strength.
Vinegar is an acid that can do damage as well as loosen stuck crud from the inners of the engine block. Your radiator can act like a big filter catching all this stuff and block it up.
If it isn't broke don't look for trouble, just drain and fill...

I use evaporust only when absolutely necessary to cure a problem using certain flushing techniques...

Mitch knows whereof he speaks! I wish I had his advice before I decided to be 'proactive' and do the vinegar treatment on my well-functioning radiator. Had so many overheating problems afterwards that I had to pull the radiator and have it boiled out. And I'm still catching debris in the stocking filter I put in the upper hose.

This ounce of prevention caused me a pound of ills!