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Old 10-09-2018, 04:30 PM   #1
KiWinUS
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Default 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

The generator on my 36 went up in smoke today & the insulator at rear of fun products cutout where armature wire connects has been hot . How to I test this cutout to be sure it it is okay
Thanks
cheers
Tony
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:28 PM   #2
koates
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

What do you mean "went up in smoke" Does your ammeter still show a charge ? Careful fitting of those Fun projects regulators is required especially the tightening of the screw terminals. Also its a regulator not an old style cutout. The instructions that come with the Fun projects regulator must be followed to the letter including the adjustment of the generator third brush. Never disconnect battery terminals while the engine is running or connect the battery or jump start cables in the reverse polarity. These regulators wont take any of that kind of treatment. How long have you had this regulator fitted ? and did it work OK once ? More information needed from you. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

Tony, the fun products terminal was loose on mine and the insulator washer spacer went up in smoke and stunk us out in the 33
The gen stopped working.BUT it was only because the terminal was loose,
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:36 AM   #4
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

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What do you mean "went up in smoke" Does your ammeter still show a charge ? Careful fitting of those Fun projects regulators is required especially the tightening of the screw terminals. Also its a regulator not an old style cutout. The instructions that come with the Fun projects regulator must be followed to the letter including the adjustment of the generator third brush. Never disconnect battery terminals while the engine is running or connect the battery or jump start cables in the reverse polarity. These regulators wont take any of that kind of treatment. How long have you had this regulator fitted ? and did it work OK once ? More information needed from you. Regards, Kevin.
His the full story. I have owned this cutout from new for about 7 years , first geny it was on broke wire inside So I installed the geny that has just failed. I purchased it as just an old 36 geny for $30 & when it arrived remove cover to find it appeared brand new & never been run despite the shabby looking outside appearance. I have run it for about 4 years & yesterday on way to breakfast noticed it not charging then about a mile later I could smell something was wrong. continued to restaurant about 4 mile. When we arrived I opened hood to find smoke coming out of geny. I disconnected battery wire at cutout. Drove home after eating & removed & dismantled generator. The wire out of geny to cutout was tight but the washer was slightly melted to plastic insulator & shows signs of some heat.
The field winding's are fried & armature is not much better.
This is why I want to check Fun products cutout/regulator prior to using again.
Thanks Kevin for your help & also Lawrie for his input.
cheers
Tony
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

John Regan, fun projects guy, is usually very helpful on these kinds of things, give him a call, i believe the number is on his web site
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

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Tony, you must make sure that the generator third brush is set to a maximum of ten amps because that's all the Fun Projects regulator will handle. Your generator must have been charging very high (25 amps + ??) for the armature and fields to burn out. Read the Fun Projects instruction sheet a least twice to understand the specifications. Remove the round cover off the regulator and inspect carefully to see if something is cooked in there. Maybe the generator terminal was shorted to ground in there. The insulator washers both inside and outside the cover are very hard to position correctly on the terminal screws and could have been a problem if someone has removed the cover before. The cover is not meant to be removed by the user. Fun Projects Co. has changed hands in the last year. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

Yes to what Kevin says, the documentation with my fun projects regulator is to set the gen at no MORE than 10 Amps. So far a couple of years later & no problems.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

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Tony, you must make sure that the generator third brush is set to a maximum of ten amps because that's all the Fun Projects regulator will handle. Your generator must have been charging very high (25 amps + ??) for the armature and fields to burn out. Read the Fun Projects instruction sheet a least twice to understand the specifications. Remove the round cover off the regulator and inspect carefully to see if something is cooked in there. Maybe the generator terminal was shorted to ground in there. The insulator washers both inside and outside the cover are very hard to position correctly on the terminal screws and could have been a problem if someone has removed the cover before. The cover is not meant to be removed by the user. Fun Projects Co. has changed hands in the last year. Regards, Kevin.
Thanks Kevin , yes I know to be careful with insulators & housing. Had been great for 4 years, I have always kept charge rate low & set it where it slightly discharged with lights on as I do not do too much night driving in her.
I will call Fun products to see how to test. Thanks for all the help!!
Cheers
Tony
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

Tony, I have found on my 33 if I use a NOS Ford armature,(I bought two) ,they sometimes fail on long trips,I think the sustained 55 mph for a 3 or 4 days in a row ,they seem to either throw a wire or the insulation breaks away.this is using the fun regulator,set at a max of 10 amps.
So what I have done lately is get on of the nos armatures rewound, this so far has been good,did a trip out to Ayers rock and back last month (7000 klms), and its still working good.
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Old 10-13-2018, 08:57 AM   #10
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

The old original stuff was made very well but the insulation was never intended to last 80+ years. Getting one rewound would make for a product with more modern materials and possibly better reliability than the original stuff. There are still companies out there that rebuild them but I don't know where to point you on that. I'd look for a local electrical shop first and go from there. You may need another fun products regulator. I don't know how well those things can take a failure like that.
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Old 10-13-2018, 04:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

Tony, I can swap you a NOS rewound armature for that NOS crankshaft.LOL
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

I run a stock cut out with a diode inside (Macs ) a Diode seems to generate quiet a bit of heat so I drill holes in the front and bottom so you get air from the fan .Consider running a duel Diode so you have a back up ,the demise of these Generators often seems to be when the main wire from the Geny gets disconnected as in your case, Koates may comment, Ted
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:33 AM   #13
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

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Tony, I can swap you a NOS rewound armature for that NOS crankshaft.LOL
Lawrie
Thanks for all the help, info & suggestions.
Thanks also to you Lawrie for the most generous offer but I will decline it for now. So after searching my stash I have found 3 new armatures ,1 Ford , 1 aftermarket & a fresh rewound(dont know by who)
I have new bearings , 3 sets NOS field coils 1 Ford 2 aftermarket, & several other NOS parts. I may try to find someone that can rewind armatures. Would like suggestions if I should coat or do anything to the NOS field windings.
Thanks again to all
Cheers
Tony
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

If the NOS field windings have not been coated then you could paint them with a good marine varnish. Some were coated with shellac originally. Trial fit them in the generator housing before coating so as to get them in the correct curvature. Once varnished they become somewhat stiff. Armatures should be only coated with the correct high temp varnish and baked in an oven. If you only coat an armature with a normal varnish then it could melt when the armature gets hot during operation and be flung off. I have a FUN PROJECTS round voltage regulator on my 34 Ford 3 brush generator for several years with no problems. The only downside to this is the maximum current is 10 amps, but it works well on a standard early Ford which has no extra electrical items except factory. Some reproduction round cut outs have a small flat semiconductor (diode) inside which would be very marginal in coping with the normal early 1928 to 1938 generator maximum of 15 amps in my opinion. I prefer the larger round alternator type diode which will handle 15 plus amps ok especially if its mounted on a heat sink inside the cover. Those diodes can be purchased as a kit for fitting inside an original Ford cut out. But the best cut out is the original round Ford unit provided it is in good condition. Regards. Kevin.
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Old 10-17-2018, 05:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

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If the NOS field windings have not been coated then you could paint them with a good marine varnish. Some were coated with shellac originally. Trial fit them in the generator housing before coating so as to get them in the correct curvature. Once varnished they become somewhat stiff. Armatures should be only coated with the correct high temp varnish and baked in an oven. If you only coat an armature with a normal varnish then it could melt when the armature gets hot during operation and be flung off. I have a FUN PROJECTS round voltage regulator on my 34 Ford 3 brush generator for several years with no problems. The only downside to this is the maximum current is 10 amps, but it works well on a standard early Ford which has no extra electrical items except factory. Some reproduction round cut outs have a small flat semiconductor (diode) inside which would be very marginal in coping with the normal early 1928 to 1938 generator maximum of 15 amps in my opinion. I prefer the larger round alternator type diode which will handle 15 plus amps ok especially if its mounted on a heat sink inside the cover. Those diodes can be purchased as a kit for fitting inside an original Ford cut out. But the best cut out is the original round Ford unit provided it is in good condition. Regards. Kevin.
Thanks Kevin for your help I tried to attach a pic of an electrical motor varnish it’s red & resists cracking chipping conducting electrical curerent oil
Will this work
I thought I would also coat windings of armature
Thanks again
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

As far as I know The Modern coating is a type of polyester resin, 2K
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: 36 generator "Fun" cutout test

When armatures are rewound they are then warmed up a bit in an oven and then dunked or immersed in a tin of special high temperature baking varnish for half an hour or so to allow the varnish to soak right through the windings. Removed from tin and allowed to drip drain for a little while and then oven baked for a couple of hours at a specified temperature. If this is not done to the correct specs then when the armature becomes hot during operation the varnish could soften and be spun off by centrifugal forces. So you can see by spraying an armature on the outside with a special coating would not be as good as baking in an oven. But then better than nothing I would guess. I would warm the armature up a little before coating it. Regards, Kevin.
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