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Old 08-23-2020, 07:12 PM   #41
JSeery
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Bob's 40 is a deluxe and should have a voltmeter and not an ammeter in it. If it has an ammeter then it has to be located between the battery and the gen/alt to work, it is showing current flow to and from the battery. A voltmeter just connects off the the wiring to the gauges and shows the voltage in the system.
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Old 08-23-2020, 07:52 PM   #42
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Bob, No have not received any PMs. You have not answered the question regarding if you have battery power or not at the alternator. Sometimes when alternators are fitted in place of generators the original heavy armature wire on the gen is used as a power wire and it is moved off the A terminal on the regulator on to the B terminal on the regulator thereby supplying the alternator with a battery connection. This saves disturbing any other wiring on the car and keeps the ammeter (If it has one) in the circuit. Does your car have an ammeter or a battery gauge (voltmeter) in the dash. If you run a new heavy wire from the alternator to the battery side of the starter solenoid then your ammeter will not show any charge. If it has a battery gauge (voltmeter) then it should climb into the green zone with engine revved up. If you cant answer these questions then it is a bit hard for me to help you. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 08-23-2020, 08:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Bob's 40 is a deluxe and should have a voltmeter and not an ammeter in it. If it has an ammeter then it has to be located between the battery and the gen/alt to work, it is showing current flow to and from the battery. A voltmeter just connects off the the wiring to the gauges and shows the voltage in the system.
Ah, I did not know that about the '40 deluxe and thought it was the same as my '39 Deluxe which has the amp meter.

Thanks for setting me straight!!
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Old 08-23-2020, 08:51 PM   #44
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Not sure how close the wiring diagrams match the production through each model year, but here are the diagrams. The diagrams show the 39 std with a loop style ammeter and the 39 dlx, 40 std & 40 dlx all having the voltmeter. No idea how this matches up the the as built per each year.
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File Type: jpg Flathead_Electrical_wiring1940std.jpg (69.4 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Flathead_Electrical_wiring1940dlx.jpg (71.7 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Flathead_Electrical_wiring1939std.jpg (63.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg Flathead_Electrical_wiring1939dlx.jpg (98.6 KB, 9 views)
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Old 08-23-2020, 09:35 PM   #45
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

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Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Not sure how close the wiring diagrams match the production through each model year, but here are the diagrams. The diagrams show the 39 std with a loop style ammeter and the 39 dlx, 40 std & 40 dlx all having the voltmeter. No idea how this matches up the the as built per each year.
My 40 Standard has the volt meter
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Old 08-24-2020, 06:56 AM   #46
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

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Not sure how we arrived at the 40 DLX ? The issue is with the 1946 pickup truck that is on my profile page. Just got on here to see a lot of replies,but going to be a little time before I get to it today. thanks guys
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Old 08-24-2020, 08:06 AM   #47
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Bob, guess we made an assumption, based on your Avatar!! We probably should have asked! Sorry.

That said, the wiring recommended above still stands as necessary for your PowerGen.
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Old 08-24-2020, 08:37 AM   #48
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Please do not apologize for anything, this is a learning experience and I'm grateful for all the input. Like I said earlier, I am doing important maintenance on my house and the old "junkers" come second at the moment.
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:18 AM   #49
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

JUNKERS!!! Please...they have feelings!! Don't mess with the karma when you're trying to trouble shoot a problem....speaking from vast experience!

Unrelated, am particularly fond on your part of NH....and the lake region!!
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:35 AM   #50
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Well, a 46, that makes a difference! LOL. And a pickup. Doesn't make any difference in how the original generator was wiried though.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:11 AM   #51
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Yes, the 46 pickup has an ammeter and yes it has to be wired up correctly for it to work. I attached a diagram of what Kevin is referring to. The Original Heavy Yellow wire with a Black tracer would have gone from the Generator to the Armature (A) terminal on the Voltage Regulator.

To switch it to the Alternator, this wire could have been used to connect it to Battery power by moving it from the A terminal on the Voltage Regulator to the B terminal. The B terminal connects (Heavy Solid Yellow Wire) to Battery Power.

The pathway is from the B terminal on the Voltage Regulator to the B terminal on the Circuit Breaker Panel. From the B terminal on the CB Panel it passes through the loop on back of the Ammeter and then to the Hot side of the Starter Solenoid.

I drew up a crude diagram of the wiring path.

For the new alternator to work it requires Battery power into it. This connection is always Hot. This is also the path of the current back to the Battery once the alternator is turning (engine running). This could be wired directly from the Battery post or directly from the Starter Solenoid for testing. It just needs to be a connection to the Battery. However, for the ammeter to work the wire between the alternator and the battery must pass through the loop on the back of it. A direct wiring connection would work fine for testing purposes, but the final wiring would be much better if connected up as shown in the second sketch.

Kevin is asking you to verify that however it is currently wired up that there is battery power at the alternator all the time (engine not running). Nothing has to be turned on for the battery power to be there, there should be a connection back to the battery such that it is always hot at the alternator terminal.

The reason the ammeter has to be between the battery and the alternator is it is measuring the current flow between the alternator (and the rest of the vehicle) and the battery. The rest of the power connections for the vehicle also connect to the B terminal on the CB. When current is flowing from the battery to the alternator (and any other circuit connected to the B Circuit Breaker terminal) the ammeter will deflect to the left showing a discharge. When the alternator is charging, current is flowing to the vehicle circuits and back to the battery and the ammeter will deflect to the right showing a battery charge.

The battery discharges some when current is used to turn over the starter. When the alternator starts output a charge the ammeter should show a larger deflection to the right (charging the battery back up). As the battery comes back up to full charge the ammeter should only show a slight deflection to the right.

With the vehicle just setting there (not running), a voltmeter connected between the alternator output terminal and a good ground should show fairly close to battery voltage. On a 6v system this should be something a little above 6v. With the vehicle running and the rpms up above idle the same check should show somewhere near 7.5 volts.
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Last edited by JSeery; 08-24-2020 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 08-24-2020, 11:33 AM   #52
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

When you run a regulator alternator, don't you have to run one of those commercially available diode dohickeys to keep the current from feeding back? I seem to remember I had to do that when I put the GM alternator on the 276" merc in my '36 about 25 years ago.

Speedway has them : https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...mpaign=CSEGOOG.
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:52 PM   #53
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
When you run a regulator alternator, don't you have to run one of those commercially available diode dohickeys to keep the current from feeding back? I seem to remember I had to do that when I put the GM alternator on the 276" merc in my '36 about 25 years ago.

Speedway has them : https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...mpaign=CSEGOOG.
The PowerGen is a one wire and I think the diode "dohickey" is built into the "innards"....at least it is on mine.
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Old 08-25-2020, 08:04 AM   #54
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

OK guys, here is what I just did, I disconnected the original heavy wire on the Alt after checking it once more and also took it from the solenoid which is a double wire. Ran a new heavy wire straight between both points and now have power at the alt ! But it now looks like I may have interpreted the circuit to the coil as it does not seem to have juice ? My question is, do I need to seperate those double wires that were on the solenoid and find which one of them is hot for coil ? bout now I wish this thing had a different owner !
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Old 08-25-2020, 12:10 PM   #55
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

Bob, did you see the sketch I posted (#51)? There has to be a wire from the starter solenoid to the circuit breaker panel where there will be a wire from the circuit breaker panel to the ignition switch. There has to be at least two wires connected to the solenoid in addition to the heavy battery cable they way you now have it wired (maybe three, that one being the horn wire). So, as you have it, a wire to the alternator and a wire to the circuit breaker (and maybe the horn wire).
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Old 08-25-2020, 02:03 PM   #56
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

JSeery,yes i see your nice diagram and will get more serious tomorrow and thank you for your help. Been a busy day this day so for.
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Old 08-25-2020, 08:08 PM   #57
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Default Re: Generator or alternator ?

I added how I think you have the alternator wired now and how the circuit breaker should be wired to the starter solenoid.
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