1930 to 31 Victoria differences

[HalcyonDays]

What are the differences between a 1930 and a 1931 Victoria? I understand there was a change in the front seat mechanism, earlier front seats were similar to deluxe phaeton, later seats were like 400A, was this a year thing? Also, the deluxe soft top version was discontinued in April of '31 is that correct? Any thoughts would be great, Thanks

[Bob Bidonde]

What follows is from the records of the International Model "A" Ford Victoria Association. This information and much more is available to association members, so I urge 190A owners to join the association.


Body Manufacturer. All of the surviving 190A Victoria Coupes (500+) on record with the International Victoria Association were made by the Murray Corporation of America in Detroit, Michigan. There are no confirmed production 190As made by Briggs or by any other body manufacturer. Evidence that disassembled 190A Victoria Coupes were shipped from the United States to Ford branches in other countries is in a photograph that can be seen on Page 27 of the November - December 1992 Issue of the Restorer. Thus a reasonable conjecture is that all 190A Victoria Coupes were built by Murray including those that were assembled at Ford branches outside of the United States.
Body Style. The Leather-Back was the first production body style of the 190A Victoria Coupe. According to the data in the table of surviving Model "A" Ford 190A Victoria Coupes, it appears that the changeover to the Steel-Back started at various Ford branch assembly plants about February, 1931. It is likely that not all Ford assembly plants made the changeover to the Steel Back at the same time. To support the Ford assembly plants, the Murray Corporation would have made the production changeover from the Leather-Back to the Steel-Back earlier, but the specific date of the changeover by the Murray Corporation is unknown. Contrary to what has been published elsewhere, the data in the table clearly shows that Ford did not offer buyers a choice between the Leather-Back and the Steel-Back. However, it is possible that a few Ford branch assembly plants may have had Leather-Backs and Steel-Backs at the same time during the changeover period enabling some salespeople to offer a choice.
Car Assembly Date. The probable car assembly date is estimated to be within a period of 90 days from the date of the engine number stamped into the frame or the number stamped into the engine cylinder block. The frame number and the engine number did match when the 190A was assembled by Ford. However the frame number takes precedence over the engine number in the determination of the car assembly date because few cars have their original engine.
Carpet, Floor. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 to its dealer’s states that the rear floor and sill carpet became a one-piece design instead of separate carpets. It also states that the ends over the sill carpets are no longer incorporated.
Carpet, Doors & Quarter Panels. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 to its dealer’s states that the carpet along the bottom of the door and quarter panels was discontinued in the Victoria.
Delivery to Ford. The Murray Body Company typically delivered bodies painted and upholstered to Ford that were ready for the body drop onto a frame.
Door & Ignition Locks. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of November 26, 1930 informed its dealer’s that a new series of locks requiring only one key had been adopted on the Victoria using Key Series A-1301 to A-1550. Lock Set A-11569 included one ignition lock with the conduit (AKA Popout Switch) plus one extra lock cylinder.
Door Pockets. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 to its dealer’s states that the “set-in” style door pocket was removed from the RH and LH door trim, and a "patch-pocket" was put into the LH door only of the Victoria. Sketches of the door pockets are in the Model A Ford Judging Standards & Restoration Guidelines. In the Indianapolis Service Letter of 5-26-31, a redundant message appears indicating that the LH door only has a "patch-pocket."
Firewall Type. The Ford Service Bulletin of May 1931 announced the introduction of a new cowl tank (AKA gas tank) in production. The new cowl tank was necessary to enable the relocation of the gas shutoff valve to the engine side of the firewall. As a result of this change, the firewall was indented to bring its surface close to the back wall of the cowl tank, so the new shutoff valve could be attached directly to the back of the tank. When a cowl tank for an older vehicle was ordered by a dealer, the new cowl tank was supplied and retrofitted into the older vehicle. Thus some Victorias built before May, 1931 may have an indented firewall.
Frame Number. When an engine was placed into a frame on a Ford assembly line, its number was stamped into the top of the left frame rail so the engine number and frame number should match. However, over the years the motor may have been changed, so the numbers likely no longer match.
Front Seat Adjustment. The October 30, 1930 Service Letter from the Kearny Branch (New Jersey) to its dealer’s introducing the 190A Victoria Coupe mentions that both front seats are adjustable. Therefore the hinge rod brackets for both front seats would have 3 holes in each. However, a considerable number of Victorias have a non-adjustable front passenger’s seat where the rod brackets have only one hole. At some time in 1931, the driver's seat adjustment changed to a sliding mechanism employing a ratchet to lock the seat into position. A specific date for the changeover to the sliding mechanism is unknown.
Front Seat Cushions. Two front seat cushion configurations are known to exist in the 190A: (1) Open space between the back rest cushion and the seat cushion covered with a flap; (2) Back rest cushion that is longer so that it nearly touches the seat cushion, and obsoleting the need for a flap. Data from the International Model A Ford Victoria Association suggests there may be a third seat cushion configuration: (3) The same as (1), but without the flap. There is no factory data to substantiate the third configuration. Another variation without factory documentation, but reported by association members is a mix of both (1) and (2) in the same car.
Pin Stripe. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 to its dealer’s states that the pin stripe on the cowl tank finish panel is no longer incorporated. To the contrary, pictures of original surviving 190As show the pin stripe did continue on the cowl tank (AKA gas tank).
Seat Frames. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 to its dealer’s states that the exposed metal on the front seats that was Maroon was changed to Black. However, evidence in the data from the International Model A Ford Victoria Association suggests the change in color was scattered with seat frames painted Black appearing much earlier than March 1931, and seat frames in some late 1931 cars were painted Maroon.
Shades. Not all 190A Victoria Coupes had quarter window shades, but all should have a rear window shade. The Chicago Branch Service Letter of 4-3-31 and the Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 to their dealer’s state that the quarter window shades were no longer being supplied as standard equipment in Victorias and Town Sedans. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 also states that the tassel on the rear window curtain was replaced with a tab.
Sun Visors. The Chicago Branch Service Letter of February 27, 1931 and the Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 to their dealer’s indicate that the RH sun visor (passenger’s side) was discontinued as standard equipment in the Victoria. The Chicago Branch Service Letter states that it would be available for installation by dealers as Part Number A-192405-A Brown, and A-192405-B for Bedford Cord. However the Chicago Branch Service Letter of 4-10-31 to its dealer’s states that the RH sun visor was reinstated. Contrary to the Chicago Branch letter, the Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of 4-3-31 does not indicate that the RH visor was reinstated. Instead the Indianapolis Branch informed its dealers that the visors would be made available to them as A-192405-C in Brown Mohair, A192405-D in Bedford Cord, using these part numbers for both the RH side and classed as special equipment for the LH side. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of 4-3-31 also states that A-192406-C in Brown Mohair and A-192406-D were standard equipment for the LH side. Then on 4-27-31, the Indianapolis Branch informed its dealers via a service letter that the RH visor was reinstated in production in the 160D Town Sedan, the 160C Deluxe Fordor and the 190A Victoria. Could it be that there are two different configurations of sun visors, the A-192405 and the A-192406?
Upholstery, Tan Broad Cloth. The Ford Motor Company's sales brochure depicting a Steel Back states that the Victoria was available in a choice of Mohair, Bedford Cord and Broad Cloth, but the Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of 5-26-31 announces that Tan Broad Cloth replaced the Bedford Cord in production.

[duke36]

Bob: great info. Are there any references to the actual material for the interior visors or reference only by scheme ? Assume the visors match the headliner material.

[Bob Bidonde]

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All the info I have re the visors is in my post above.


I revised the my comment about the pin stripe on the cowl tank:


Pin Stripe. The Indianapolis Branch Service Letter of March 13, 1931 to its dealer’s states that the pin stripe on the cowl tank finish panel is no longer incorporated. To the contrary, pictures of original surviving 190As show the pin stripe did continue on the cowl tank (AKA gas tank).